[Imc-africa] Gilberto's mail
sphinx
sphinx at indymedia.org
Mon Apr 5 10:17:27 PDT 2004
Hello Gilberto! This conference if you noticed have seriously ruined my nerves.
You sure remember you telling me to cool down while I shouted on the phone out
of frustration from the whole thing, Well that is my problem. I still cannot
affort a long email on this topic so I'll go down to the question raised in your
mail.
below is a copy of 2 emails;
1-The mail I wrote to you in reply to your complain about extra bills(ticket
change and Lisbon transit pocket money).
2-The mail you wrote to me after the conference on getting back to Luanda.
You'll notice the following that made me very angry and wrote the way I did on
recieving the mail you sent to the African list from Luanda after the conference:
The mail(#2 bellow) you sent to me privately from Luanda, which you mentioned in
the mail to the african list, talks about VISA EXPENSES, which was NOT the topic
in the earlier communication between us. Next when you decided to write to the
indymedia list about the VISA EXPENSES you did not call it VISA EXPENSES you
called it "some money YOU spent to attend the conference", which could easily
give a completely different impression from what it was(visa expenses).
In my mail(#1) to you here below as well as your mail under it which I was
replying , it was a talk about EXTRA COST FOR CHANGING YOUR TICKET AND POCKET
MONEY FOR THE LONG HOURS TO BE SPENT ON TRANSIT IN LISBON. Which I promised to
send to you, that is 284Dolars(ticket extra-charges) and 50 EUROS for the transit.
284 US DOLLAR plus 50 EUROS in gives 245EUROS. I had had the people at the bank
do the callculations then. if I can remember very well the exchange rate Euro
to Dollar then was 0.8. I equally remember that the bank used about the same
rate to convert the money donates in Dollars from the US to the conference papal
account. So as to the question if I "Are AM sure I paid me
for the transit?" , THE ANSWER IS AN ABSOLUTE YES!!
And to your present mail it is sad you decide to make it sound as if I decided
to change the date of your flight, despite the fact that we talked that over the
phone. That the only flight with a place for you that will make you be in Dakar
for conference was 5th March according to the lady at the flight agency here.
And I accepted that flight as the foundation needed to pay for all the tickets
the tickets at once. Then you started complaining about the fact that you got
exams and an important appointments in Luanda on the 6th and that you cannot
travel bofore the 6th. Added to that you did not pick the ticket early enough
which you sure know could have taken off the pressure of changing the date at
the last moment.
I would rather ask if you think it is the same thing to say "VISA EXPENSES" to
me and EXTRA EXPENSES to the list when writing of the same expenses. And to say
I agreed to reimborse you VISA EXPENSES which never at any time were a
discussion between us, Especially when your mail on visa expenses shows it COULD
NOT be some misunderstnading of our previous discussions, as we had
figures(248Dollars and 50EU) in our talk about extra expenses and your
visa-expenses-mail you had an entirely new bill(30Dollars).
Valentine
1.MAIL FROM ME TO YOU ABOUT THE EXTRA COST AND STOP IN LISBON PLUS YOUR MAIL ON
THE SAME
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:08:47 +0000
From: vally_x at .....
To: Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>
Subject: Re: trip
Dear Gilberto, this is good news about the visa and the ticket.
About the $248 it is unfortunate that we have to get all this subsidary cost
. I'll pay it from the Conference funds. I just hope the comrades from South
Africa get a ticket that provides space for their ticket not to be short in the end.
I'll make provision that you get 50 RURs as money for your stay in Lisbon.
May be I should say if we had more money, I would have given you more.
Appart from the organisation that paid your ticket and the ticket of 5 other
african delegates for the conference we had just 2800EUR for the conference.
>From which we have to pay one ticket from Kenya and one from South Africa. The
rest is going to pay for the Appartment where all of you will be lodged.
Food during the conference, some equipment, taxi to pick you from the airport on
arrival. And the telephone bill of organising-which we are still waiting from
the D-telecom. So understand it is not like we have money. If we did have money
we could have paid tickets and all these stuff alot earlier.
When you get to Dakar Daniel who is flying from Germany will give you the 50
EUROS and the equivalent of $248 in Euros.
Sphinx
. I got the ticket withe the right name and changed the date to March 7th.
. I had to pay $248 fine so wonder if you´d refund it. I´d have to spend
. overnight in Lisbon.
. Would you refund the money I´d spend there too? I´ll be using a passport
. that doesn´t require a visa to get out the airport if necessary be.
. The visa´s ready tomorrow only. I had to change the date with TAP because
. the consulate
. ensured me about tomorrow.
. Gilberto
2.YOUR MAIL ABOUT THE 30$ dolars EXPENSES
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:59:11 -0800
From: Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>
To: vally_x at nadir.org
Subject: [No Subject]
Hi Valentine
I hope you are doin fine as well as your work for Indymedia. Emailing to say
that I wasn´t refund the money I spent for the visa here in Luanda ($30) and
in Lisbon in transit ($75) to Dakar. I expected to get it during the
conference but I was only given the amount I spent for postponing the flight
(245 rather than 248 euros). So wonder when I will get this money because,
to be honest, I borrowed from a friend.
Best,
Gilberto Neto
3. YOUR EMAIL TO THE AFRICAN LIST CAN BE READ HERE:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-africa/2004-March/000324.html
---------------------------------------------------
Quoting Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>:
> Hi Valentine
>
> I hope your fine.
>
> That´s interesting your rude reply. I wonder why you talk to me like that.
> I
> just can´t understand why.
>
> First, I raised this question because you agreed to refund me this money
> when I asked you before I leave to Dakar.
> Do you remember? I told you that I could not effort all these expenses -
> including the money I´d have to spend in Lisbon as I´d have to stay there
> almost an entire day for the connecting flight (Are you sure you paid me
> for
> the transit?). So I´m not raising this question because I read on the list.
> You told me about that, you said yes. Check your "deleted items" and you´ll
> see it.
>
> I´m afraid that´s not fair when you say that. Something you should know -
> I´m sure you do - is that you didn´t give me the exact amount I spent for
> changing the flight. And I believe you also know the reason why I did that:
> because you changed the dates.
>
> Pls don´t say I´m being insensitive.
>
> It doesn´t definitely mean that I need desperately such money. I deal with
> transparency on my daily life so wherever I´m involved in I wanna know
> what´s going on, mainly when the issue concerns to me directly. I´m just
> raising the issue because I should. That´s part of the Indymedia
> principles.
> Am I right? Even if we talk about $1.
>
> "All activists indymedia do what they do from conviction and are not paid a
> salary for" and "...participating to show a certain degree of commitment to
> the project" doesn´t mean, I think, that we should keep silent or accept
> everything some people do. But, of course, I completley agree that nobody
> should take such benefit from the organisation.
>
> I didn´t reply earlier as I just arrived from a province where these high
> technologies don´work and I´m leaving to South Africa tomorrow, but I´m
> keen
> to read again from you. Let´s debate on transparency.
>
> You are right: I emailed you once only. Of course, I´m honestly grateful
> for
> your job, your calls that allowed me to attend the Conference.
>
> Best,
>
> Gilberto Neto
>
> Gilberto Neto
> (244 2) 446 829- Redacção/Newsroom
> (244 2) 432 333- Casa/Home
> (244) 915 16776-Celular/Cell
> gilneto at netangola.com
> Luanda-Angola
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sphinx" <sphinx at indymedia.org>
> To: "Gilberto Neto" <gilneto at netangola.com>; "African IMCs and the imc
> project in Africa" <imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Imc-africa] Gilberto's mail
>
>
> > hi Gilberto! Nice to read from you on the list in the way you did write
> it.
> > I got your "one email" which you prefered to call emailS on your mail
> below. I'm
> > spending less time online now as I'm on a little break , i needed a
> break
> from
> > the whole stress of the conference that is why i did not respond till now
> to
> > your mail.
> >
> > You wrote asking me to refund the VISA FEE you paid for your visa.
> Probably
> > becuase you read on the list that we paid visa fee for John and Grace.
> But
> > Gilberto this is abit insensitive on your part everyone on this list even
> at
> > this point knows that we just squeezed ourselves through the conference.
> That I
> > still have a telephone bill of 204,94 EUR plus the last one that just
> arrived
> > 55EUR which cannot be paid.
> >
> > In you are asking for visa fee becuase you read that the group from Kenya
> had
> > visa fee, it is to say the list very sad. Frank and Jean paid their own
> visa
> > fees too.
> > John and Grace were send visa fees becuase they explained that they could
> not
> > afford it at the time even then they still had to add some money to make
> up the
> > visa sum.
> >
> > You got money for transit which probably Jean could have asked same if it
> is to
> > read mails on this list and ask for similar services. You conplained
> about
> the
> > $248 you paid to change your ticket while there were some funds you where
> > refunded the money.
> >
> > I've read your mail and the others mails of complains about what was
> offered.
> > All i can say and will surely say when I'm over with my break and will
> have to
> > write a report for the IMC-network on the Dakar-Conference is the
> following:-
> > That all activists in indymedia do what they do from conviction and are
> not paid
> > a salary for, including all the energies put to make this conference in
> Dakar
> > happen.
> > It means at least one needs everyone saying they are participating to
> show
> a
> > certain degree of commitment to the project. Thus acquiant themselves
> with
> the
> > information avaliable and try to take some initiative.
> >
> > I hope in the next conference, IF EVERTHERE IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER that
> we
> can
> > get information of how many people will come and how many people will
> share a
> > house, exact sleeping possiblities and other stuff and inform groups
> before
> > hand so that any group which thinks the conditions are below their
> minimum
> > standard can just simply say they cannot participate.
> >
> > Gilberto,
> > Write an email to this list asking for your visa and that will be
> included
> in
> > the conference final report for the IMC-network; and if any other
> activists are
> > interest in raising funds to cover left over bills from the conference
> they'll
> > consider that too like one of the standing bills from the conference. And
> if
> > they raise the money they can send it to you.
> > Sphinx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>:
> >
> > > Hi Grace and everyone
> > >
> > > Sorry for the delayed reply.
> > >
> > > I had a safe trip back home, thanks. As Glenda said, we flew together
> from
> > > Dakar to Lisbon. I'm now fully back to work but planning another trip
> around
> > > Africa. I terribly miss everybody, especially you Grace, because of
> tears! I
> > > won't definitely forget the wonderful time we spent all together during
> the
> > > Conference.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I won't forget the last hours I had in Dakar, moving
> place
> > > to place with all my stuff because, well I believe you know why. And I
> will
> > > always remember the fact that we were lodged in such conditions -
> actually I
> > > didn't care about sleeping in a sofa or on the flour, as that was a
> grate
> > > experience. What drove me really pissed off - a part of becoming almost
> a
> > > "homeless-Angolan- in- Dakar-for-some-hours" - was the fact that for
> three or
> > > four times I had to wake up and leave the room due the "toxic" smoke
> some Bob
> > > Marley followers would spread all around the room.
> > >
> > > Also, there is the fact that I wasn't refund some money I spent to
> attend the
> > > conference. The result of emails sent to Germany has been a total
> silence.
> > >
> > > That's life, that's not the end of the world anyway. The most important
> was
> > > the fact that I learnt so the Indymedia process here is moving faster.
> > >
> > > Tell me about your life and job Grace. And you bro John, how's my
> compatriot
> > > Vladimir Russo?
> > >
> > > Frank - are you out there? Is Paul Biya still getting out his palace
> with the
> > > entire army?
> > >
> > > I think that we should communicate more and find a way to bring Jean on
> the
> > > debate.
> > >
> > > Rafael - Have you found anybody who was locked up? I'm planning to
> write
> the
> > > story soon.
> > >
> > > Glenda - Pls keep me posted about the projects
> > >
> > > Daniel - that program to send secret emails is not included on the CD I
> was
> > > given. Can you help me?
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Gilberto Neto
> > > (244 2) 446 829- Redacção/Newsroom
> > > (244 2) 432 333- Casa/Home
> > > (244) 915 16776-Celular/Cell
> > > gilneto at netangola.com
> > > Luanda-Angola
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Grace Waita
> > > To: African IMCs and the imc project in Africa
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Imc-africa] XIBAR
> > >
> > >
> > > Attention Frank,
> > > The above refers, please do the needful,that is, TRANSLATE.
> > > Thanks in advance, God bless you plus all the others too.
> > > P.S I travel to Mombasa tomorrow,Godwilling.
> > > GILBERTO: R U IN ANGOLA?
> > > CHRISTI: DID YOU ARRIVE WELL?
> > > GLENDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I AM WORKING ON SOMETHING,WILL LET YOU
> KNOW
> > > ASAP.
> > >
> > > Bye.
> > >
> > > Grace.
> > >
> > > Win an evening with the Indian cricket captain: Yahoo! India Promos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Imc-africa mailing list
> > > Imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org
> > > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-africa
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > but for fate we could have been one another
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
but for fate we could have been one another
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