[Imc-africa] Gilberto's mail
gilneto at netangola.com
gilneto at netangola.com
Sat Apr 17 06:36:13 PDT 2004
Hi Sphinx
I'm sure you are ok. Emailing just to say that I will respond properly later as
I have to rush.The elections took place already here in SA but have to look to
a couple of other things. But I have time to say that I'm deeply disappointed.
chao,
Gilberto
Quoting sphinx <sphinx at indymedia.org>:
> Hello Gilberto! This conference if you noticed have seriously ruined my
> nerves.
> You sure remember you telling me to cool down while I shouted on the phone
> out
> of frustration from the whole thing, Well that is my problem. I still
> cannot
> affort a long email on this topic so I'll go down to the question raised in
> your
> mail.
> below is a copy of 2 emails;
> 1-The mail I wrote to you in reply to your complain about extra
> bills(ticket
> change and Lisbon transit pocket money).
> 2-The mail you wrote to me after the conference on getting back to Luanda.
>
> You'll notice the following that made me very angry and wrote the way I did
> on
> recieving the mail you sent to the African list from Luanda after the
> conference:
> The mail(#2 bellow) you sent to me privately from Luanda, which you mentioned
> in
> the mail to the african list, talks about VISA EXPENSES, which was NOT the
> topic
> in the earlier communication between us. Next when you decided to write to
> the
> indymedia list about the VISA EXPENSES you did not call it VISA EXPENSES
> you
> called it "some money YOU spent to attend the conference", which could
> easily
> give a completely different impression from what it was(visa expenses).
>
> In my mail(#1) to you here below as well as your mail under it which I was
> replying , it was a talk about EXTRA COST FOR CHANGING YOUR TICKET AND
> POCKET
> MONEY FOR THE LONG HOURS TO BE SPENT ON TRANSIT IN LISBON. Which I promised
> to
> send to you, that is 284Dolars(ticket extra-charges) and 50 EUROS for the
> transit.
> 284 US DOLLAR plus 50 EUROS in gives 245EUROS. I had had the people at the
> bank
> do the callculations then. if I can remember very well the exchange rate
> Euro
> to Dollar then was 0.8. I equally remember that the bank used about the
> same
> rate to convert the money donates in Dollars from the US to the conference
> papal
> account. So as to the question if I "Are AM sure I paid me
> for the transit?" , THE ANSWER IS AN ABSOLUTE YES!!
>
> And to your present mail it is sad you decide to make it sound as if I
> decided
> to change the date of your flight, despite the fact that we talked that over
> the
> phone. That the only flight with a place for you that will make you be in
> Dakar
> for conference was 5th March according to the lady at the flight agency
> here.
> And I accepted that flight as the foundation needed to pay for all the
> tickets
> the tickets at once. Then you started complaining about the fact that you
> got
> exams and an important appointments in Luanda on the 6th and that you
> cannot
> travel bofore the 6th. Added to that you did not pick the ticket early
> enough
> which you sure know could have taken off the pressure of changing the date
> at
> the last moment.
>
> I would rather ask if you think it is the same thing to say "VISA EXPENSES"
> to
> me and EXTRA EXPENSES to the list when writing of the same expenses. And to
> say
> I agreed to reimborse you VISA EXPENSES which never at any time were a
> discussion between us, Especially when your mail on visa expenses shows it
> COULD
> NOT be some misunderstnading of our previous discussions, as we had
> figures(248Dollars and 50EU) in our talk about extra expenses and your
> visa-expenses-mail you had an entirely new bill(30Dollars).
>
> Valentine
>
>
> 1.MAIL FROM ME TO YOU ABOUT THE EXTRA COST AND STOP IN LISBON PLUS YOUR MAIL
> ON
> THE SAME
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:08:47 +0000
> From: vally_x at .....
> To: Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>
> Subject: Re: trip
>
> Dear Gilberto, this is good news about the visa and the ticket.
> About the $248 it is unfortunate that we have to get all this subsidary
> cost
> . I'll pay it from the Conference funds. I just hope the comrades from
> South
> Africa get a ticket that provides space for their ticket not to be short in
> the end.
>
> I'll make provision that you get 50 RURs as money for your stay in Lisbon.
>
> May be I should say if we had more money, I would have given you more.
> Appart from the organisation that paid your ticket and the ticket of 5
> other
> african delegates for the conference we had just 2800EUR for the
> conference.
> From which we have to pay one ticket from Kenya and one from South Africa.
> The
> rest is going to pay for the Appartment where all of you will be lodged.
> Food during the conference, some equipment, taxi to pick you from the airport
> on
> arrival. And the telephone bill of organising-which we are still waiting
> from
> the D-telecom. So understand it is not like we have money. If we did have
> money
> we could have paid tickets and all these stuff alot earlier.
> When you get to Dakar Daniel who is flying from Germany will give you the
> 50
> EUROS and the equivalent of $248 in Euros.
>
> Sphinx
>
> . I got the ticket withe the right name and changed the date to March 7th.
> . I had to pay $248 fine so wonder if you´d refund it. I´d have to spend
> . overnight in Lisbon.
> . Would you refund the money I´d spend there too? I´ll be using a passport
> . that doesn´t require a visa to get out the airport if necessary be.
> . The visa´s ready tomorrow only. I had to change the date with TAP because
> . the consulate
> . ensured me about tomorrow.
>
> . Gilberto
>
> 2.YOUR MAIL ABOUT THE 30$ dolars EXPENSES
> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 04:59:11 -0800
> From: Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>
> To: vally_x at nadir.org
> Subject: [No Subject]
>
> Hi Valentine
> I hope you are doin fine as well as your work for Indymedia. Emailing to
> say
> that I wasn´t refund the money I spent for the visa here in Luanda ($30)
> and
> in Lisbon in transit ($75) to Dakar. I expected to get it during the
> conference but I was only given the amount I spent for postponing the
> flight
> (245 rather than 248 euros). So wonder when I will get this money because,
> to be honest, I borrowed from a friend.
> Best,
>
> Gilberto Neto
>
> 3. YOUR EMAIL TO THE AFRICAN LIST CAN BE READ HERE:
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-africa/2004-March/000324.html
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Quoting Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>:
>
> > Hi Valentine
> >
> > I hope your fine.
> >
> > That´s interesting your rude reply. I wonder why you talk to me like
> that.
> > I
> > just can´t understand why.
> >
> > First, I raised this question because you agreed to refund me this money
> > when I asked you before I leave to Dakar.
> > Do you remember? I told you that I could not effort all these expenses -
> > including the money I´d have to spend in Lisbon as I´d have to stay there
> > almost an entire day for the connecting flight (Are you sure you paid me
> > for
> > the transit?). So I´m not raising this question because I read on the
> list.
> > You told me about that, you said yes. Check your "deleted items" and
> you´ll
> > see it.
> >
> > I´m afraid that´s not fair when you say that. Something you should know -
> > I´m sure you do - is that you didn´t give me the exact amount I spent for
> > changing the flight. And I believe you also know the reason why I did
> that:
> > because you changed the dates.
> >
> > Pls don´t say I´m being insensitive.
> >
> > It doesn´t definitely mean that I need desperately such money. I deal
> with
> > transparency on my daily life so wherever I´m involved in I wanna know
> > what´s going on, mainly when the issue concerns to me directly. I´m just
> > raising the issue because I should. That´s part of the Indymedia
> > principles.
> > Am I right? Even if we talk about $1.
> >
> > "All activists indymedia do what they do from conviction and are not paid
> a
> > salary for" and "...participating to show a certain degree of commitment
> to
> > the project" doesn´t mean, I think, that we should keep silent or accept
> > everything some people do. But, of course, I completley agree that nobody
> > should take such benefit from the organisation.
> >
> > I didn´t reply earlier as I just arrived from a province where these high
> > technologies don´work and I´m leaving to South Africa tomorrow, but I´m
> > keen
> > to read again from you. Let´s debate on transparency.
> >
> > You are right: I emailed you once only. Of course, I´m honestly grateful
> > for
> > your job, your calls that allowed me to attend the Conference.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Gilberto Neto
> >
> > Gilberto Neto
> > (244 2) 446 829- Redacção/Newsroom
> > (244 2) 432 333- Casa/Home
> > (244) 915 16776-Celular/Cell
> > gilneto at netangola.com
> > Luanda-Angola
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sphinx" <sphinx at indymedia.org>
> > To: "Gilberto Neto" <gilneto at netangola.com>; "African IMCs and the imc
> > project in Africa" <imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Imc-africa] Gilberto's mail
> >
> >
> > > hi Gilberto! Nice to read from you on the list in the way you did write
> > it.
> > > I got your "one email" which you prefered to call emailS on your mail
> > below. I'm
> > > spending less time online now as I'm on a little break , i needed a
> > break
> > from
> > > the whole stress of the conference that is why i did not respond till
> now
> > to
> > > your mail.
> > >
> > > You wrote asking me to refund the VISA FEE you paid for your visa.
> > Probably
> > > becuase you read on the list that we paid visa fee for John and Grace.
> > But
> > > Gilberto this is abit insensitive on your part everyone on this list
> even
> > at
> > > this point knows that we just squeezed ourselves through the
> conference.
> > That I
> > > still have a telephone bill of 204,94 EUR plus the last one that just
> > arrived
> > > 55EUR which cannot be paid.
> > >
> > > In you are asking for visa fee becuase you read that the group from
> Kenya
> > had
> > > visa fee, it is to say the list very sad. Frank and Jean paid their own
> > visa
> > > fees too.
> > > John and Grace were send visa fees becuase they explained that they
> could
> > not
> > > afford it at the time even then they still had to add some money to
> make
> > up the
> > > visa sum.
> > >
> > > You got money for transit which probably Jean could have asked same if
> it
> > is to
> > > read mails on this list and ask for similar services. You conplained
> > about
> > the
> > > $248 you paid to change your ticket while there were some funds you
> where
> > > refunded the money.
> > >
> > > I've read your mail and the others mails of complains about what was
> > offered.
> > > All i can say and will surely say when I'm over with my break and will
> > have to
> > > write a report for the IMC-network on the Dakar-Conference is the
> > following:-
> > > That all activists in indymedia do what they do from conviction and are
> > not paid
> > > a salary for, including all the energies put to make this conference
> in
> > Dakar
> > > happen.
> > > It means at least one needs everyone saying they are participating to
> > show
> > a
> > > certain degree of commitment to the project. Thus acquiant themselves
> > with
> > the
> > > information avaliable and try to take some initiative.
> > >
> > > I hope in the next conference, IF EVERTHERE IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER that
> > we
> > can
> > > get information of how many people will come and how many people will
> > share a
> > > house, exact sleeping possiblities and other stuff and inform groups
> > before
> > > hand so that any group which thinks the conditions are below their
> > minimum
> > > standard can just simply say they cannot participate.
> > >
> > > Gilberto,
> > > Write an email to this list asking for your visa and that will be
> > included
> > in
> > > the conference final report for the IMC-network; and if any other
> > activists are
> > > interest in raising funds to cover left over bills from the conference
> > they'll
> > > consider that too like one of the standing bills from the conference.
> And
> > if
> > > they raise the money they can send it to you.
> > > Sphinx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Quoting Gilberto Neto <gilneto at netangola.com>:
> > >
> > > > Hi Grace and everyone
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the delayed reply.
> > > >
> > > > I had a safe trip back home, thanks. As Glenda said, we flew together
> > from
> > > > Dakar to Lisbon. I'm now fully back to work but planning another trip
> > around
> > > > Africa. I terribly miss everybody, especially you Grace, because of
> > tears! I
> > > > won't definitely forget the wonderful time we spent all together
> during
> > the
> > > > Conference.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, I won't forget the last hours I had in Dakar,
> moving
> > place
> > > > to place with all my stuff because, well I believe you know why. And
> I
> > will
> > > > always remember the fact that we were lodged in such conditions -
> > actually I
> > > > didn't care about sleeping in a sofa or on the flour, as that was a
> > grate
> > > > experience. What drove me really pissed off - a part of becoming
> almost
> > a
> > > > "homeless-Angolan- in- Dakar-for-some-hours" - was the fact that for
> > three or
> > > > four times I had to wake up and leave the room due the "toxic" smoke
> > some Bob
> > > > Marley followers would spread all around the room.
> > > >
> > > > Also, there is the fact that I wasn't refund some money I spent to
> > attend the
> > > > conference. The result of emails sent to Germany has been a total
> > silence.
> > > >
> > > > That's life, that's not the end of the world anyway. The most
> important
> > was
> > > > the fact that I learnt so the Indymedia process here is moving
> faster.
> > > >
> > > > Tell me about your life and job Grace. And you bro John, how's my
> > compatriot
> > > > Vladimir Russo?
> > > >
> > > > Frank - are you out there? Is Paul Biya still getting out his palace
> > with the
> > > > entire army?
> > > >
> > > > I think that we should communicate more and find a way to bring Jean
> on
> > the
> > > > debate.
> > > >
> > > > Rafael - Have you found anybody who was locked up? I'm planning to
> > write
> > the
> > > > story soon.
> > > >
> > > > Glenda - Pls keep me posted about the projects
> > > >
> > > > Daniel - that program to send secret emails is not included on the CD
> I
> > was
> > > > given. Can you help me?
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Gilberto Neto
> > > > (244 2) 446 829- Redacção/Newsroom
> > > > (244 2) 432 333- Casa/Home
> > > > (244) 915 16776-Celular/Cell
> > > > gilneto at netangola.com
> > > > Luanda-Angola
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Grace Waita
> > > > To: African IMCs and the imc project in Africa
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:54 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Imc-africa] XIBAR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Attention Frank,
> > > > The above refers, please do the needful,that is, TRANSLATE.
> > > > Thanks in advance, God bless you plus all the others too.
> > > > P.S I travel to Mombasa tomorrow,Godwilling.
> > > > GILBERTO: R U IN ANGOLA?
> > > > CHRISTI: DID YOU ARRIVE WELL?
> > > > GLENDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I AM WORKING ON SOMETHING,WILL LET YOU
> > KNOW
> > > > ASAP.
> > > >
> > > > Bye.
> > > >
> > > > Grace.
> > > >
> > > > Win an evening with the Indian cricket captain: Yahoo! India
> Promos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Imc-africa mailing list
> > > > Imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org
> > > > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-africa
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > but for fate we could have been one another
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> but for fate we could have been one another
>
>
----------------------------------------------------
Esta mensagem foi enviada através do serviço Mukanda da neXus
This mail sent through Mukanda WebMail
http://mukanda.nexus.ao/
neXus - O seu operador de comunicações
HelpDesk: (02) 333140
More information about the Imc-africa
mailing list