[Imc-africa] dakar concerns
sphinx
sphinx at indymedia.org
Thu Feb 12 00:00:42 PST 2004
Again I think I need to clarify some points on this mail that could leave the
wrong impression on some one who just joined the discussions.
Zitat von nicolas dieltiens <nicolas at red.org.za>:
>
> Hello all and thanks Sphinx for such a comprehensive response to my
> queries/misperceptions, but having followed the links advised, I still can't
> say I'm reassured. A scan of the records online concerning the BtB and the
> Dakar conference may be summed up:
> 1. Sometime in May last year, mention is made on the IMC-Africa list that
> sending a crate of computers down south would be a really fine idea (Ecuador
> and Argentina benefited from such deliveries).
It will be really nice i think, if you took time and read the links rather
than scan them as some of the issues you mentioned in this mail as critic and
conclusions are very clearly handled in those links.
The discussions in the Africa list have been more in the line of how to
achieving the goal of the list which has been to support the growth and
development of indymedia in Africa. The discussion of the sending of computers
down South came up when Rabble said TECH SOLI COULD assemble some pcs to
support african imcs. But even before that a host of ideas had been flotting
around on how to enchourage the growth of the indymedia in Africa. Amongst
which where tours and regional meetings. In which the was a first attempt to
organise such a meeting early last year in Nigeria which did not work for
sudden changes in the program of Jay whom the activists from IMC-Ambazonia and
IMC-Nigeria wanted to have him share expereince with them during the meeting.
> 2. Then the idea of the tour is mooted by a collective in Germany, as a
means
> to meet like-minded media activists as well as a vehicle to 'hand out
> equipment to IMCs in Africa'.
The German collective that Organised the BTB tour informed activists from a
wide range of activities groups of their planned african tour (not moot). Then
some imc-activists participated in the preparation meeting and INFORMED the
network that it will make sense to use the tour like a platform to introduce
indymedia to the countries the tour will passby.
> 3. The need for a conference emerges for reasons I couldn't trace but would
> presume for slowing the caravana to more than a whistlestop.
You just didn't take time to read the document. The Conference is in the light
of the alternative media festival which is a concept that was within the tour,
that at every specific stop of the tour attentioned will be paid to a
particular topic with a festival focusing on the particular topic. Thus the
migration festival in Morroco and a host of others and the Media festival was
to take place in Senegal, for which the indymedia activists involved in the
discussion plus the discussions that took place in the network irc meetings/
mailing list ended-up with the use of the 14days for media festivial as an
alternative(indymedia) Conference.
> 4. In the proposal document, the aims of the conference are set out as the
> dissemination of the indymedia ethic, organisational principles, and like
> 'winds of change' it is hoped that committed activists will take these
> forward in the establishment of consolidation of their projects.
> 5. The 14-day programme as cited is very vague. A full day to discuss
'online
> security'? 2 days are dedicated to video and audio streaming which, given
the
> bandwidth in South Africa, is entirely impractical to even think about. The
> programme is intensively web-technical whereas most of indymedia's audience
> doesn't have access to the Internet.
It is a draft proposal as you call it "PROPOSAL" and it is written there, that
the delegates in the light of participative consensus will draw an agenda of
their own. I do not understand what you mean when you say a programm is VAGUE
when the program says exactly what could happen in what day.
If you would have read the documents well, you would have seen that the day
for the security workshop did not mean the delegates will spend a 24hours day
only discussing about online security. About 2days given for video and audio
editing, I do not see any trouble with that as video-editing-know-how can be
used for making videos that could be screened for locals. And loading video
clips online do not always need bandwidth. Take a look at the website that has
been used on the tour this far and you'll watch video clips made on Morocco.
( http://imc-in-africa.so36.net).
what is this talk about the programme being intensively web-technical
are we talking of different programs??
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/Draft
-If a local imc wants to focus on going arround and doing sceening in their
community they will need to do video editing.
-if an imc wishes to do radio(local pirate/freeradio) which is most applicable
in many african communities they will need to do audio editing.
-If a local imc needs to do print they will need to know how to use a lay-out
program.
So how is the programme intensively web-technical??
>
> If there's a need for African IMCs to come together, it is to discuss areas
> in which we can offer one another support and develop a critique of
> developments on the continent.
We first need to have the imcs in place first before we start having them come
up with a position on developments in the continent. By the way indymedia is
about ORGANISING the making of MEDIA content in a NON-HIERARCHY structure
which is the focus of the conference.
>From the particular understandings of media
in our respective countries and of the relationships of Indymedia to other
> organisations/movements, an approach to continent-wide projects can be
> generalised. The form and content of media we produce in coming out of the
> conference could then make independent reportage in the continent sharper
and more coherent. How we manage IMCs, ensure their sustainability and
> productivity are crucial questions but not ones that can be resolved by
> emphasising a dependence on expertise or experience from Europe. Our
> identities, mutual relations and critical perspectives have first to be
> reinforced.
I just do not see what is the reason for this statement on European experts
AGAIN "...crucial questions but not ones that can be resolved by
emphasising a dependence on expertise or experience from Europe"
NO one is bring any EXPERTS from ANYWHERE to solve crucial questions for
African imcs. We have enchouraged activists with experience in the network as
well as knowledge in using software that the MOSTLY FORMING or developping
African imcs will need, to come and share their experience and know-how. It is
surely clear that without activists from Canada or elsewhere introducing
indymedia in SA people in SA would have still needed some one who have have
contact with the network to do so. Our hope is for the forming African IMCs to
get a good understanding of indymedia. So they could develop it for their
communities as the need be.
>
> Perhaps it's just my organising background, but I'd recommend a conference
> secretariat bring a sense of order to the process. Representatives from each
> participating IMC should be seconded to the secretariat and issues relevant
> for the conference can then collectively inform the programme. Conference
> organisers have to be identified as well to collate the information and to
> look to practical arrangements. There are a number of active discussants on
> the list, Sphinx especially, who have already been playing such roles. It's
> important for accountability and a transparent process that these people be
> identified, and with funds already raised, this should be done sooner than
> later.
THAT WILL BE A hierarchy which is exactly what indymedia is not about. Let all
interested including delegates as well as non-delegates read through the
proposal and make proposal to the list how they think the proposal can be
improved. Not for us to set up some conference secretariat. Accountability and
transparency is, for all issues to be discussed here on the list rather than
by a secretariat. New proposals discussed here and added to the twiki pages.
All moneys raised for the tickets of the delelgates or the conference as a
whole reported here on the list and to other network lists. That will be
archived on network lists rather than to wait for a report from some
conference Secretariat.
>
> I hope these comments are helpful towards a successful meeting in Dakar,
> nicolas
> Indymedia SA
I hope I clarified some issues a bit more better.
Sphinx
>
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:22:24 +0000, vally_x at nadir.org said:
> >Hi Nicolas! It is unfortunate that I cannot affort the time to write an
> >extensive mail to reply to your mail below. But then I'll try to do so as
> much
> >as the short time at my disposal can permit. I'll try to include a couple
of
>
> >links to help give you more access to information.
> >I would rather put most of the the links at the end of the page to avoid
> >confusion in reading.
> >
> >
> >1-You are wrong to assert that "organising the event lurches
> > towards the question of funds" as the Organsing has been going on for six
>
> >months now and the question of fund only came in the last few weeks, in
> effect
> >it has been the very last of things to deal with. You will see that in the
>
> >links I'll mention later all from the ARCHIVES OF YOUR INDYMEDIA mailing
> list
> >INDYMEDIA SA. Content have been discussed, representation(mobilisation)
have
>
> >been discussed and the process have been going on all this while.
> >
> >2-Your are wrong to assert that there have been "very little discussion has
>
> >focused on the conference itself, its programme and objectives". For that
is
>
> >what has been happening the last 6months.
> >
> >Here is a short extract from one of the material on the twiki pages:
> >
> >[.The long term perspective is for African activists to Organise imcs all
> over
> >the continent and use them for their struggle for a better society as well
> as
> >an example for an alternative way of organising society (consensus & non-
> >hierarchy) to enhance participatory democracy. Which will in turn lead to a
>
> >more Just and equitable society.
> >
> >Immediate perspective .We hope to sow the knowledge of imc amongst the few
>
> >activists that we will get contact with leaving in Africa. To be able to
> >discuss, clarify and explain what indy is all about. Especially the
> difference
> >between indymedia and what is popularly known in Africa as independent
> media.
> >As, while these independent media in Africa kind of focuses mostly on
> >criticising the government; indymedia goes the extra length to offer
> >possibility for the participation of every member of the society; thus
> taking
> >away the limited option of just having those out of government to work
their
>
> >way into government as has been the results with the work of some of these
>
> >independent media activity. Indymedia goes down to propose an option that
> will
> >improve the structure of society and not only to deal with goverment
> >malpractices . With the workshops that we plan to Organise during
> >the "Boundaries to Bridges tour" we hope to : Clarify these things and that
>
> >when the tour ends in March-2004 we should have in the continent a handful
> of
> >people that have got the GRASP of what indymedia is all about, how it
> functions
> >and what is the contribution it can bring in raising political awareness in
> the
> >continent and enhancing the development of the society. Then in the future
> this
> >continent based activists will be at the forefront of spreading indymedia
in
>
> >the continent and other activists around the world can support them when
the
>
> >need arises.]
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/
ShortAndLongTermPerspectivesOfIndymediaAfri
> >ca
> >
> >
> >3- You are wrong to make the assertion that "when what it is that will
> occupy
> >the few that will attend for two-weeks is actually quite unclear". As that
> has
> >been discussed again and again. Drung his last six months which a look
atthe
>
> >links from your achieves will go to confrim.
> >
> >4-Yout are wrong to assert that the "The conference has been
> > suggested as a technical workshop" . For not even the working draft of
what
>
> >will happen in those 14days suggest that.
> >
> >Extract from draft for the 14days
> >[proposal Calendar for the March 1-14, when the focus of the tour is
> indymedia.
> >We plan to use this period to run serious workshops about indymedia.
> >
> >
> >Monday toWednesday-March 1-3 ; arrival/socialising of activists.
> >
> >Thursday-March 4; Self-introduction / restructuring of agenda
> >
> >Friday-March 5; -Presentation of The history and structure of indymedia.
> >Presentation on Alternative Media is and Presentation on Formal Consensus.
>
> >Saturday-March 6 :Workshop on Openposting and site admin, list admin, IRC .
>
> >Sunday-March 7 : watching of imc-made films.
> >Monday-March 8 : Audio and audio streaming
> >Tuesday- March 9 : Video and video streaming
> >Wednesday- March 10: Basics on free-software/opensource; concept and how it
>
> >works.
> >Thursday- March 11 : Workshop on Online security
> >Friday-March 12 : Discussion on Independent maintenance of local imc with
> >reference to self funding.
> >Saturday-March 13 : Alternative Media Festival Party
> >Sunday- March 14 : Closing of Conference/ Alternative Media festival
> >]
> >
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/Draft
> >
> >
> >-5.Here again is another assertion that have nothing to do with the reality
> of
> >the preparation this far noh has any reason to have been make [The
> > political agenda for the conference is entirely absent and subsumed by
> > presumptions of African neediness and northern activists' benevolence.
> >]
> >
> >-Take a while and look at the twiki page develop in the frame of the tour
of
>
> >which the conference is a further development
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/BtB
> >
> >-You could also look at the archives of the imc-africa list were lots othis
>
> >discussions also took place
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-africa/
> >
> >
> >-Below are some links managed to assemble from the archives of indymedia
> South
> >Africa that can help everyone acqauint themselves with both the evolution
> and
> >development of the concept of the conference.
> >
> >
> >
> >IDEAS AND DISCUSSION ABOUT IMC IN AFRICA WHICH WILL LEAD LATER TO THE TOUR
> THAT
> >WILL THEN BRING THIS WHOLE CONFERENCE WITHIN IT'S FRAME starts from here
and
>
> >goes all the way to the imc-african list. This are all from the archives of
> imc-
> >sa
> >
> >-Jay's first mail
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2002-July/subject.html
> >
> >-Jay's mail to Afrcian imcs
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2002-September/000708.html
> >
> >-Need to creat a list where to discuss how to handle (Imc africa lists)
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2002-December/000792.html
> >
> >
> >
> >-Effords at updating people on the discussions
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-January/000799.html
> >
> >-More infromation being passed arround all with the intern to push imc
> growth
> >and development in Africa
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-January/000800.html
> >
> >-Discussion the ideas and issues on how to go forawrd with indymedia in
> africa
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-January/000801.html
> >
> >
> >The Begininig of the discussions leading to this conference
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-May/000890.html
> >
> >Call for network wide IRC meeting on tour
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-July/000946.html
> >
> >Logs of network meetings
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-July/000947.html
> >
> >
> >more on irc meetings
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-August/000966.html
> >
> >And update on more developments and proposal for next meeting
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-sa/2003-October/000996.html
> >
> >Best regards
> >Sphinx
> >
> >ps: i'll be ready to answer any questions on the issue
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Quoting nicolas dieltiens <nicolas at red.org.za>:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear all, for a two-week conference that's scheduled to begin at the end
> of
> >> the month, very little discussion has focused on the conference itself,
> its
> >> programme and objectives. Everyone on-list has been scurrying around for
> >> funds to make it happen when what it is that will occupy the few that
> will
> >> attend for two-weeks is actually quite unclear. The conference has been
> >> suggested as a technical workshop, and 9 volunteers are to offer
workshops
> on
> >> skills still to be determined for 12 or less IMC-africa participants. If
> this
> >> is all the Dakar conference is hoping to achieve, I could think of
> better
> >> ways to spend our efforts and their money.
> >>
> >> Perhaps some responses could clarify my concerns, but at the moment the
> >> conference hasn't been conceptualised and organising the event lurches
> >> towards the question of funds. Let's better re-schedule and conceptualise
> the
> >> conference before exasperating volunteered contributions. I'd really be
> a
> >> reluctant participant in a conference of 6 with 9 workshop facilitators -
> for
> >> two-weeks (the count recommended recently by Jay (IMC Philadelphia)).
> The
> >> political agenda for the conference is entirely absent and subsumed by
> >> presumptions of African neediness and northern activists' benevolence.
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> Nicolas
> >> Indymedia sa
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Imc-africa mailing list
> >> Imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org
> >> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-africa
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> Imc-africa at lists.indymedia.org
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-africa
>
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