[Imc-be] sorry foutje bij NL belgium.indymedia.org
christophe callewaert
christophe at indymedia.be
Tue Jun 8 16:12:13 PDT 2004
Hello,
I see that nobody replied to my objections.
I want to find a consensus on this matter.
Changing the dns of belgium.indymedia.org is not a good solution because
of the reasons I gave in my mail.
Can someone stick to those facts instead of starting senseless
discussions on other matters?
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 10:46, Arnaud Leblanc wrote:
> For one year, there is only one goal that the different regional imc's would
> like to reach. It is creating a Belgian site that would gather all the
> Belgian imc's on one site (for the moment, it means: www.indymedia.be,
> liege.indymedia.org, brussels.indymedia.org, limburg.indymedia.org,
> antwerpen.indymedia.org, ovl.indymedia.org, wvl.indymedia.org...).
>
> This site is what we call a syndication site, it means: a site that
> syndicates all news, feature and agenda from the different sites. This site
> would work automatically.
>
> Local groups are the way that Indymedia activists are organised in Belgium.
> You can like it or not, but www.indymedia.be is also a local group (even if
> you would like to work on Belgium and not in a regional way).
>
> There are no reasons that your group can claim the "Belgium" url and not an
> other (we are all Belgian). For example, Indymedia London or Manchester
> doesn't claim the UK url, people out there collaborates even if they are
> different and have different approaches of what is an Indymedia site (I hope
> for them that they don't always write flame mails to each others). In UK
> also, I remember that they also had some problems when the London collective
> had to let other use the uk url, but they did... And now, there is no
> problem anymore.
>
> More, we also care for the site you're administrating for the moment. Most
> of us have worked hard for it in the past (Pseudo, Joeri, Duende, Turlututu,
> me......etc...etc...). We don't want to lose everything that has been done
> (and to respond to Christophe, we'll work to keep all the features). But
> this is not a good reason why the national Indymedia url is in some hands
> and not in the hands of others. It's just not right.
>
> The deadline you are claiming is no deadline in my view. Last year, and I
> read and read again the famous General meeting of September report, I see no
> deadline. I only see that you wanted at that time to work on a more regional
> way and that would take one year.
>
> You can read the conclusions on that point from the general meeting of
> www.indymedia.be in september: "We zijn gewonnen voor het voorstel van
> WVL+Liège, maar denken dat daar tijd voor nodig is. De lokale initiatieven
> moeten de tijd krijgen om te groeien en te rijpen. We willen zelf stappen
> ondernemen om het lokale werk beter te ondersteunen. Er moeten ook meer
> autonome lokale groepen komen. We denken ook dat het mediacircus daar een
> rol in kan spelen. Lokaal willen we ook niet verengen tot "provinciaal". We
> vinden het wel spijtig dat de oprichting van Vlaanderen eigenlijk tegen die
> logica ingaat. (((I erase the point about supra-regional sites like imc
> vlanderen))). Volgende keer willen we die discussie over het verschil tussen
> een nieuwssite en een opinie-en campagnesite uitdiepen (die iets breder is
> dan enkel de discussie over al dan niet discussieforum op de site). Dat komt
> dan ook als eerste punt op de agenda."
> (Source:
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-belgium-process/2003-September/0015
> 80.html sent by belgium at indymedia.org)
>
> I don't see any deadline about a syndication site, neither a deadline about
> the url. I only see a reflection about the idea to join the movement of the
> local imc's or not. About this, you can always decide what you will do and
> how you will organise yourselves but you cannot say or pretend that you
> represent the indymedia activists of Belgium. And this is why you have no
> right on the "belgium.indymedia.org" url. I'm sure you will be able to get
> the "be.indymedia.org" if you want to keep a "indymedia.org" url in addition
> of the www.indymedia.be url but this is not concerning the other local
> groups of Belgium.
>
>
> Greets, Groeten, Salutations,
>
> Arnaud
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : imc-be-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
> [mailto:imc-be-bounces at lists.indymedia.org] De la part de han at indymedia.be
> Envoyé : mardi 8 juin 2004 14:21
> À : Joeri
> Cc : imc-be at lists.indymedia.org
> Objet : Re: [Imc-be] sorry foutje bij NL belgium.indymedia.org
>
> On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:56, Joeri wrote:
> > hey,
> >
> > It's quite difficult to work together with people who don't do what they
> > say they'll do
>
> Stop calling people liers Joeri,...
>
> > definately because this is the way you try to block the syndicationsite
> > project
>
> Why would this be a way to block the syndication website??
> We never opposed to that website,... I really do not understand why
> would you need the url belgium.indymedia.org to start te project??
>
> And even more, if your intention really is to build a network of local
> collectives, that url does even less matter, as outreach is done by
> local collectives for their local collective.
>
> I see a hidden agenda and that is closing down belgium.indymedia.org,
> and some people do not even hide their intentions.
> So starts that syndication website with urls like belgië.indy
> Belgique.indy be.indymedia,....
> But don's say we try to block you, we never did. By saying this you
> only make clear that what your really mean is that the syndication site
> can only work when belgium.indymedia.org and the belgium collective are
> closed down....
>
> > Past year, nice statements were done
> > Local collectives worked towards the syndicationproject; imc-belgium
> didn't
> > now people from imc-belgium want to stop the project using the argument
> > that they didn't do what they said they would do
>
> We set a deathline for september Joeri, as far as I know it is only
> june. You did not oppose that deatline at that time. As far as I can
> see we have more local news on OVL en Brussels than those collectives,
> so stop saying we did nothing, thos are facts. Maybe we should put back
> the links to thos local feature pages, to make that clear??
> Most of alle read again the conclusion of that meeting in september.
> You wil see that we have another definition of local.
>
> I can already assure you that yo will be amased by the report Mara and
> the media-circus will post by the end of this month about all this
> stuff.
>
> Greets
>
> han
>
>
>
>
> >
> > greets
> > joeri
> >
> >
> > han at indymedia.be wrote:
> >
> > >So this is the way you want to work together with people, say that they
> > >are lyers. First we hide, we don't come to the point, an than we are
> > >lyers...
> > >
> > >Come in Joeri, stop this and try to listen to the arguments developed.
> > >
> > >greets
> > > han
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:36, Joeri wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>ik merk op dat jullie woorden en jullie daden niet gelijklopend zijn, en
>
> > >>dat er veel woorden gebruikt worden om dat te verhullen
> > >>
> > >>I notice that your acts don't keep up with your words, and that many
> > >>words get used to hide that
> > >>
> > >>greets
> > >>joeri
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>han at indymedia.be wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>In the context of the former imc-vlaanderen, Han said at
> >
> >>>>http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-belgium-process/2003-September/
> 001665.html
> > >>>>: "while Belgium is working towards local IMC's and disbanding itself
> in
> > >>>>one year. (This is what the proposal asked for, and it was accepted
> with
> > >>>>a delay of one year). " This doesn't mean it'd be talked about at a
> > >>>>meeting,in september. It does mean that working on a more local level
> by
> > >>>>indymedia.be should have been reached, or that there'd been worked on
> it
> > >>>>very seriously. The current situation is that it seems that
> imc-belgium
> > >>>>has done nothing in these 9 months (since september) to work on a more
>
> > >>>>local scale.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>First of all you can better point to the conclusions of the General
> > >>>assembly :
> >
> >>>http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-belgium-process/2003-September/0
> 01580.html
> > >>>
> > >>>Second you should not make trials of intention, but stick to the fact.
> > >>>A fact for instance is that there more local news on the Belgium site
> on
> > >>>OVL and Brussels than there is on those local sites.
> > >>>You are right we did not open "virtual" local sites or collectives,...
> > >>>And yes I use the term virtual, as you seem to think that people anly
> > >>>exist if they are on irc or post on newslists,...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Reading your current mails, it seems that you are not
> > >>>>motivated at all to start working seriously on it soon.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>There you are again: "it seems that" ....
> > >>>Maybe we are verry motivated but have a different approach,... you
> > >>>really should stop making trials of our so called intentions.
> > >>>We took a decission in september nobody at that time questioned our
> > >>>timing,... And now you think you can change deadlines "unilateral", if
> > >>>you want to work together on project you should know that this is not
> > >>>the way things work.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>So i don't see a reason why we won't work on on the the
> > >>>>syndicationsite-project
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>Who ever said you could should not work on that website. You should
> > >>>stop blaming others that this syndication website does not exist yet.
> > >>>Why would you need the url belgium.indymedia.org to be able toi start
> > >>>with that project. The only reason I can see is that some people think
> > >>>that by using this well knouwn url (11.400 links to artickles on that
> > >>>url) at least they will have some visitors on their website.
> > >>>
> > >>>Som other clearly state on the different websites that simply want to
> > >>>close down belgium.indymedia.org as they claim to be the one and only
> > >>>thruly indymedia.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>There is indeed a different approach of the different
> > >>>>indymedia-collectives in Belgium. But in the local collectives there
> is
> > >>>>motivation to combine those differences in a syndicationsite (without
> > >>>>those collectives losing their autonomy), while indymedia.be
> constantly
> > >>>>hides behind excuses while never coming to the point (except in
> > >>>>september past year).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>Joeri, the problem is that when people have a different approach or
> > >>>opinion than yours you say "They are not coming to the point" or that
> we
> > >>>are hading behind excuses.
> > >>>We do not hide behind any excuses, we clearly have a different opinion
> > >>>on all this.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Are you serious when saying that "belgium.indymedia.org" is your
> (only?)
> > >>>>link with the global indymedianetwork?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>You should not make a joke of such a remark, propose a solution.
> > >>>
> > >>>Really try for once to listen to arguments that were given. And beside
> > >>>that you really will have to wait untill the outcome of that meeting in
> > >>>september.
> > >>>You might think that posting something in a mailing list withe the
> > >>>notion : if nobody objects it is axcepted,... I think that you can only
> > >>>use this way of working for small decisions.
> > >>>We decided that we would decide, conclude this process in september, I
> > >>>will no go up against this democraticly made decission an fool people
> in
> > >>>september by saying that they should have checked the mailing lists.
> > >>>
> > >>>Greets
> > >>> han
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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