[Imc-belgium-process] closed process-archives
Arnaud Leblanc
arnaudleblanc at swing.be
Tue Oct 28 18:17:37 PST 2003
Hi,
My opinion is that the process list should be public.
Main decisions about indy.be are taken here. If this list is hidden, those
decisions won't be open as it should be. The principles of the Indymedia
system needs open discussions for taking decisions. If those decisions are
not public, it means that a lot of people couldn't get involved in the
process.
If people wants to talk in private, maybe should it be a good idea to create
a new list (not public) but main decisions should be public.
It's my idea,
Greetings,
Arnaud
-----Message d'origine-----
De : imc-belgium-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
[mailto:imc-belgium-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org] De la part de han
Envoyé : mardi 28 octobre 2003 0:12
À : 'imc-belgium-process'
Objet : Re: [Imc-belgium-process] closed process-archives
My humble opinion in this discussion.
I think that closing down the list was a good idea. I was a litle bit
surprised by the desision Mara made, but that does not make it bad desision.
I feel like we need a place as a collective were we are able to discuss,
talk free, without the whole world watching us. I think that the idea of
having an audience puches us in this strange kind of violent debates.
I always strongly opposed private mailing lists and will continue to do it.
But closing down a list a list for the outside world is different than
organising a private list. Everybody who wants to prarticipate in
indymedia.be is free to join the list and has acces to the archives.
As Mara pointed out other IMC's have closed lists,... There is nothing wrong
with doing this and we probably should have closed this list a long time
ago.
We all knouw this list has an audience, not only of fascists.
As for now I feel the urge to be able to talk in private to this list.
Some of the mails I wrote here I do not want to be readable for the whole
world. I do not want them to be on google,... There are no secrets written,
but still some things that I do not want to be on the internet for everybody
to read.
I wrote those things with the knowledge that they would only be acessible
for people participating in this list (now and in the future).
Greetings
han
> I don't think that the proposal of just 1 person is enough reason to
> close the list to the public. At least a small debate about it should
> have been more democratic. So, I propose to have the debate first and
> then close the list.
> As I said, fascist also use/refer to robot and edito list. As I said
> also, we'd better find another more effective solution to protect us
> from the spamming of fascists.
> Greetz
> lize
>
>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>> Van: imc-belgium-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
> [mailto:imc-belgium-
>> process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org] Namens han
>> Verzonden: zondag 26 oktober 2003 14:24
>> Aan: duende; imc-belgium-process
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Imc-belgium-process] closed process-archives
>>
>>> My 2 cents: an e-mail should have been sent to both lists before
> their
>>> archive was closed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>> Butb Mara sended out a mail in the list to explain that it would be
>> closed.
>>
>> Ik agree with the closing down of the list. I see that fascists use
> the
>> open lists, and even link to it.
>> But I also think that it is better now to have those discussion in our
>> team,
>> annybody who wants to particpate has always been welcome in this list.
>>
>> For the time being I do not need an audience for this debate.
>>
>> I also know that several other IMC's did the same thing to able to
> solve
>> their problems without the interference of outsiders.
>> Check SF indymedia lists, and some of the NL lists
>> http://www.freeteam.nl/mailman/listinfo/imc-nl
>>
>>
>> Greets
>> han
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> There seem to be frequent problems with subscription to the lists.
>>>
>>> I made 4 attempts to subscribe to the coordination list - with
> intervals
>>> of several days in between - before i actually succeeded.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> duende
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 13:51, mara wrote:
>>> Hi, friday evening I have send this email.
>>>
>>> "Het is een spijtige zaak, maar er wordt al een hele tijd misbruik
>> gemaakt
>>> van de openheid van de verschillende lijsten. Zo citeert een
> fascist
>> als Dog
>>> of Flanders uit onze lijsten. Ik denk niet dat dit de bedoeling
> was
>> van
>>> transparante communicatie.
>>> En aangezien heel wat andere lijsten er geen problemen mee hebben
> om
>> hun
>>> communicatie gesloten te houden (zowel in het binnenland als in
> het
>>> buitenland), zie ik niet goed in waarom bv. belgium-process nog
> open
>> moet
>>> blijven"
>>>
>>>
>>> More explanation:
>>>
>>> On Friday I noticed that several other list are closed too.
>>> For example: the imc-be list `to encourage collaboration between
>> different
>>> imc`s` seems to be a closed list!! ( this is before I closed down
>> process).
>>> I subscribed in the imc-be list, but I was not approved. I got no
>>> explanation what so ever.
>>> And when there is one list that should be open, I think it should
> be
>> the
>>> imc-be list. How else can you encourage this `collaboration`
>> especially when
>>> people are not subscribed/approved?
>>>
>>> Secondly, there are fascist abusing the openness of the lists (dog
> of
>>> Flanders for example)
>>>
>>> The atmosphere is getting really bad on the process list, I think
>> nobody has
>>> a message in this stupid discussions.
>>>
>>> I think edito should stay open. After all, everybody should be
> able to
>>> follow edito decisions.
>>> Unfortunately, the process discussion is now moved to the
> edito-list
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings
>>>
>>> Mara
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: imc-belgium-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
>>> [mailto:imc-belgium-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org]On Behalf
> Of
>>> Joeri
>>> Sent: vrijdag 24 oktober 2003 17:59
>>> To: imc-belgium-process at lists.indymedia.org
>>> Subject: [Imc-belgium-process] closed process-archives
>>>
>>>
>>> hey,
>>>
>>> i just noticed the imc-belgium-process archives are only viewable
> for
>>> listmembers anymore; what is the reason for that please? and is it
>>> temporary or on longer terms?
>>>
>>> greets
>>> joeri
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Imc-belgium-process mailing list
>>> Imc-belgium-process at lists.indymedia.org
>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-belgium-process
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Imc-belgium-process mailing list
>>> Imc-belgium-process at lists.indymedia.org
>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-belgium-process
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------
>> # Creativity and innovation always build on the past.
>> # The past always tries to control the creativity that builds upon it.
>> # Free societies enable the future by limiting the power of the past.
>> # Ours is less and less a free society.
>>
>> http://www.FSF.org
>> http://www.creativecommons.org
>> http://www.indymedia.be
>> --------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imc-belgium-process mailing list
>> Imc-belgium-process at lists.indymedia.org
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-belgium-process
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imc-belgium-process mailing list
> Imc-belgium-process at lists.indymedia.org
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-belgium-process
>
--------
# Creativity and innovation always build on the past.
# The past always tries to control the creativity that builds upon it.
# Free societies enable the future by limiting the power of the past.
# Ours is less and less a free society.
http://www.FSF.org
http://www.creativecommons.org
http://www.indymedia.be
--------
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