[CIMC-working] Re: some non-capitalist tech coops

[Chris Kaihatsu]

Doug, Ian, all,

> But, if there are an abundance of sympatico server groups than
> perhaps [developing regional servers -CK] is not a top priority.

I agree with this conclusion.


> Part of the TMF fund is to help arts and film indymedia type projects get
> started.  If the funds were just in indy, it would be hard to see the space
> for that.  If we have overlap of efforts amongst diverse interests, we can
> include and support more and more types of efforts.  If we look for only
> internal effort for our interests, gradually, perhaps sooner than later, we
> will not be supporting change and adaptation and growth of diversity and
> cooperation.

Yeah, I agree with the overall TMF (Tactical Media Fund) approach, and your
point about scoping outward, broadly.


> If isps are giving some indy a free ride, the small the better and the more
> distance from indy process the better, until we have our own funds.

Agreed.


Chris




on 12/16/02 4:52 PM, Doug Morris at being@enteract.com wrote:

> Ian,
> 
> I agree that we want to become more self-reliant economically.
> 
> I disagree about the "outsourcing" part of our work for stuff where there
> are sympatico folks doing things well.  Indeed, Indymedia would not have
> arisen with out that.  And in its media creations, indymedia is the work of
> coallitions.  Some indymedia locals are as much networks of various local
> efforts as entities. We are a network entity.  It is good to build on that
> as a strength.
> 
> Another aspect of this is people and groups of people tend to specialize in
> what they are good at. They gravitate to what the can do and like to
> do.  This isn't a law of capitalism.  It is what people in most complex
> societies -- capitalist, socialist, anarchist, cooperative, whatever --
> tend to do.
> 
> We can all share in the grunt work and divy up fund raising responsibility
> (even to the point of dues), but according to our own means.
> 
> It wasn't practical for indymedia volunteers or the indymedia network with
> little money to own space and machines to have servers at first.  So,
> mutual aid took care of that.  Perhaps we can do that soon or
> eventually.  But, if there are an abundance of sympatico server groups than
> perhaps it is not a top priority.  Don't know about that.
> 
> Since there are tech coops out there that offer the space and somehow
> bandwidth, good.
> 
> Anyway, I disagree completely about buffers and outsourcing.
> 
> It takes a great deal of work to create a cooperative sector.
> 
> We are not just doing media.  We are trying to fight capitalism. It is good
> to support and create more and more types of ways to do this.
> 
> There is rarely a great deal of autonomy in complicated projects.
> 
> There are so many type of efforts: economic, hard tech, soft tech, legal,
> editorial, strategic (even).
> If various groups taken on part of the burden of managing the interface
> with capital -- with techs de-profit-capitalizing/cooperativizing tech
> stuff and fund raisers de-capitalizing/cooperativizing finance and indy
> doing its part by working with open publishing (de-capitalizing media) --
> then we become stronger together, not weaker apart.
> 
> In other words, we don't need to stamp the indymedia brand on everything
> and build everything in house that we do.  But, i believe it is very very
> good to encourage all sorts of semi-autonomous affiliated projects.
> 
> Part of the TMF fund is to help arts and film indymedia type projects get
> started.  If the funds were just in indy, it would be hard to see the space
> for that.  If we have overlap of efforts amongst diverse interests, we can
> include and support more and more types of efforts.  If we look for only
> internal effort for our interests, gradually, perhaps sooner than later, we
> will not be supporting change and adaptation and growth of diversity and
> cooperation.
> 
> As for bandwidth, in and where that is directly from corporations, I agree
> that we eventually should pay for that based on our donations.  Even
> Speakeasy is very different (hopefully) from Soros and Ford. And we want to
> be moving away from that reliance.
> 
> If isps are giving some indy a free ride, the small the better and the more
> distance from indy process the better, until we have our own funds.
> 
> Best, Doug