[CIMC-working] (regarding endorsements & collective democracy) Fwd:
[IMC-Process] sent to editolist indymedia.be
Chris Kaihatsu
ckaihatsu at myrealbox.com
Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:09:26 -0600
-- Forwarded Message --
hi,
I sent following on the indymedia.be-editolist,
greetings, Guido
hi,
I had to wait for one week to get connected to the Net.
So I could think about the discussions there are now about STOPUSA,
AEL-list, Han,...
1. Indymedia.be should sign the STOPUSAplatform.
I don't see why, and I don't see why the rest of the collective has to
follow the opinion from 4 or 5 people, for me it's like this persons made up
their mind and the rest has to follow or they want it or not. This is not
democratic at all.
2. The AEL-list: I have really problems that somebody of the collective
would be on a list in the elections next year. Why? Han is known from
indymedia.be, "without indymedia.be Han would be not known, was there no
Han, maybe their was no indymedia.be...". I think that if Han comes on a
list, for people indymedia.be will loose it's independency because:
1. Indymedia.be will be known as something mainstream, it will be to much
known.
2. What Han will/can say can be used against indymedia.be.
3. Indymedia.be has not to be a platform of politics, with Han on a list,
this will be very difficult and indymedia.be will become at platform. And
what do we do then? Let every party publish? Make choices in wich parties
can publish?
Elections are opium for the people, they don't change anything. Only the
faces change, the laws stays the same and wich government you remember that
deleted anti-strike laws, or any other laws that undermine civilens rights?
They all make new or make the older ones harder.
And maybe it would be nice to see that finally their are some people who
mean it well and will say what people think, but that's an idal hope.
Hopefully the people on the AEL-list will get media-attention after the
elections, if they get a seat. And that's nothing that Han or whoever
chooses, it's the media who chooses. You can try to get their attention like
Jahjah did, but you're words get mixed and transformed...
And than what? Han who writes on indymedia.be what the media did with his
words?
There is Elke who works now at indymedia.Wvl and is member of Agalev.
I don't see the problem in that. The day Elke stands on a list of Agalev for
elections, I think she can not longer be involved in indymedia.Wvl, for the
same reasons why Han, can not be.
People will learn to know Han and maybe than visit Indymedia.be and than
read articles and comments from him. For now already Han is know as Han from
Indymedia.be, than it will be even more Han from indymedia.be.
In the past, people profitted from work I did, I don't want to see it
happening again.
And than thinking about STOPUSA and the AEL-list, come on, two times Han and
Jahjah.
Imaging following story:
Piet and Karel set up STOPUSA with some other people. Piet was also one of
the persons who setup indymedia.be and is much interviewd because of it's
existence.
Karel was locked up five days because of having a big mouth, he's Arabian,
something that the Flemish people scares, an Arabian who opens his mouth.
Now the organisation of Karel thinks about going to the elections with a
list. Karel is contacting other people.
And Piet says to a paper that he even is prepared to move to Antwerp to come
up on a list.
Han said to a paper that he even is prepared to move to Antwerp to come up
for the AEL
Afterwards Han said what he said to the journalist:
"Noot :
Wie het artikel in De Morgen las, werd misschien op een verkeerd been gezet.
Ook tegen Koen Vidal vertelde ik dat verkiezingen niet echt mijn
actieterrein zijn. Ik vertelde hem wel dat mensen als Dyab Abou Jahjah en
Roberto voor mij symbool staan voor verzet en ik daarom wel wil overwegen om
op die lijst te staan (en om eventueel terug naar Antwerpen te verhuizen).
Koen Vidal vroeg me of ik dan geen problemen had met bepaalde standpunten
van de AEL. Ik lachte en vroeg : welke standpunten- die van Dyab Abou Jahjah
of de standpunten die de media hem in de mond leggen? "
http://belgium.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=43053&group=webcast
<http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=ace7d165e33f3a22d9f62ac8
cbbafd3d&lat=1041188066&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fbelgium%2eindymedia
%2eorg%2ffront%2ephp3%3farticle_id%3d43053%26amp%3bgroup%3dwebcast>
This comes from the article that Han wrote in which he writes also :
"Toch vroegen een aantal mensen mij de afgelopen dagen of ik me al dan niet
kandidaat zou stellen voor de lijst van Dyab Abou Jahjah. En om eerlijk te
zijn, ... ik weet het niet goed. "
I think Han made up his mind already but has to wait what the AEL and others
say.
The exemple from above is what I mean what will happen when Han get's in the
media. The journalist writes something and than it's not just or halftrue.
And Han will write about in on indymedia.be.
Who will check it?
STOPUSA and people who support it also say that you have not to critisize
Saddam or that you're helping the Americans if you critisize Saddam.
http://belgium.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=43424
<http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=b758c0a96cdb0fd2e66827f8
9d87beb9&lat=1041188066&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fbelgium%2eindymedia
%2eorg%2ffront%2ephp3%3farticle_id%3d43424>
One organizer of STOPUSA even wrote that Saddam didn't kill Kurds. This is
revisionisme.
Their were to features about critisizing Saddam and Bush on indymedia.org. I
can not imaging That at indymedia.org, they are working for the American
government.
Also that Han critisized the action of Pink and Green, makes me have doubts.
On indymedia.org their is now a feature about Christmas and shopping and
actions against it. Even some websites in this subject.
And than you can read the comment of Han where in he critisizes this action.
Sorry, this is crap.
http://belgium.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=43600&group=webcast
<http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=fec504132cddd797dccbc388
c0fad9ef&lat=1041188066&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fbelgium%2eindymedia
%2eorg%2ffront%2ephp3%3farticle_id%3d43600%26amp%3bgroup%3dwebcast>
Greetings, Guido
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