[CIMC-work] Fw: [IMC-Process] eep. Ok Manila blocks. where to next.

Fri Dec 26 19:43:17 PST 2003

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shayne O'Neill" <shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au>
To: <imc-process at lists.indymedia.org>
Cc: <imc-ph-manila at lists.indymedia.org>; <imc-pilipinas at lists.indymedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 11:35 PM
Subject: [IMC-Process] eep. Ok Manila blocks. where to next.

Ok.

So Manila blocks.

So we move to the next stage of this processm and figure how to lift this
block.

Can I suggest a couple of ways forward.

We need to have a *friendly civil discussion* here on the
fears/joys/concerns/animosities/love/anger that are behind this so that we
can build an understanding to move forward from this.

Can I sugest a couple of 'ground rules' to make this work better.

1) Lets drop the references to party affiliations or whatever. I'm going
to try and get a copy of the affiliated org list, but I dont think this
should inform the debate. Indymedia is *NOT* about pushing sectional
agenda's but rather about giving voices to the voiceless. speaking the
unspeakable perhaps.

2) Lets not personalise this debate. I am aware of the sensitivities of
all parties, and I admit freely I havent troden lightly around them. I'm
not perfect and I dont expect (not that its my role to expect!) perfection
for others. If we try and keep this civil, we'll go along way.

3) Active listenening. Rather than react angrilly to 'slurs' or whatever,
lets try and address and reasure what those fears are about. The qc kids
are understandably frustrated. lets respect that. the manila gang are
understandably concerned. lets respect that too. But rather than fight
over it, lets build some bridges to work thru these issues and find a way
thru them.

4) Keep to the main concerns. See point #1. It dont matter who we liase
with. It matters what we are aiming to achieve.

Anyway, I will now say this;-

Manila.
=========
How do *you* propose that qc adress your concerns. Ie, what would
it take to lift the block? Qc have given me answers to my concerns that
make me now fairly comfortable. What does it take to keep you happy.
Remember a block should *NOT* be about nixing minority ideas or positions,
but about puting a slow down on things to rebuild in an inclusive manner.
How do we get from here to there?

QC
=========
Do you have any ideas on how to reasure manila that there fears are either
unfounded , misguided or unwaranted? Try and remain calm also guys.
Dialogue is the key here.

Shayne.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:43:47 -0800 (PST)
From: soluble fish <solublefish2002 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: "IMC Manila, Philippines - a local working group"
    <imc-ph-manila at lists.indymedia.org>
To: imc-ph-manila at lists.indymedia.org
Subject: [Imc-ph-manila] MANILA IMC

GOOD DAY PEOPLE!

Sorry for the late reaction of MANILA IMC crew regarding the current naming
crisis and organizing methods, due to financial constraints and other
factors that hindered us to have and internet access and be updated with the
current situation here in the mailing list. In behalf of the collective, I
would like to express our decision to raise our formal BLOCK to the process
of IMC-QC ergo IMC-PILIPINAS.

First of all, before I would like to give the details of our reason to block
imc-qc in the process is that I want to go back again with the FIRST MEETING
OF THE TWO COLLECTIVE (manila imc&pilipinas imc) 6 months ago to CLARIFY THE
ISSUE. The reason of that meet was to resolve the conflict between the
clashing methods of organizing that reflects with the result of two
PRINCIPLES OF UNITY.

MANILA COLLECTIVE stands with DECENTRALISM and CONSENSUS while the PILIPINAS
COLLECTIVE obscured the idea of DECENTRALISED ORGANISING but ironically they
stand with CONSENSUS.

DURING THE MEETING, there was no CONSENSUS ATTAINED to resolve the conflict
but a temporary solution to move on with the organizing methods in SEPARATE
TRACKS. Manila collective resisted the imposition OF AGREE TO DISAGREE
SPECTACLE by the pilipinas collective to us, from which they want to
conclude such binary opposite option that we don't like IMC-PILIPINAS
because we don't adhere with their PoU or vice versa. This tactics used by
the pilipinas collective IS the TACTIC that was used by MAO-TSE TUNG during
the CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY occupation AGAINST the AUTONOMOUS TIBET and the
limited knowledge of Dalai Lama's diplomatic tactical warfare. And now, this
kind of AUTHORITARIANism is being practiced by this collective in a NETWORK
who practices DECENTRALISM and NON-HIERARCHY.

I wonder why they want to have an IMC FRANCHISE while they cannot understand
fully the GLOBAL PRINCIPLES OF UNITY that adheres decentralism,
non-hierarchy and consensus. That IS Why I have this assumption that the
PILIPINAS COLLECTIVE is the unit of the Maoist Left Party in the Philippines
that aims to conquer the advantage of Indymedia as a propaganda machinery
for their AUTHORITARIAN ends. Therefore it's a PARTY PROJECT. That is why
they cannot compromise themselves to practice DECENTRALISM.

Now, for our reasons why we want to block the IMC-QC:

1)      Respect the autonomous organizing of the grass roots people to have
their own indymedia by promoting local and regional organizing rather than a
sweeping super-centralised IMC.

2)      Promote the concept of ORGANIZING FROM BELOW.

3)      Prevent the authoritarian tendencies of a collective.

4)      Empower the local people by letting them know that they are the
media itself

5)      Respect AUTONOMY!

PLEASE! Philippines is an ARCHIPELAGO. Let us respect the people to organize
themselves locally and do not impose CENTRALISM that will crush the peoples
will on AUTONOMY and eventually disrespect DIVERSITY.

If the pilipinas collective want to have their OWN MEDIA CENTER, do not USE
indymedia as the MEANS of your PARTY. I know, all of the affinity groups
that the pilipinas collective composes the main LEGAL FRONTS of the
AUTHORITARIAN COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE PHILIPPINES (CPP/NPA). If I am wrong
with my ASSUMPTION, compromise yourself with DECENTRALISM and RESPECT
AUTONOMY, DIVERSITY, NON-HIERARCHY AND CONSENSUS.

Thank you!

Long Live the Autonomous Indymedia,

Jong

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