[CIMC-working] (disputes) Fwd: [Resolve] who is android 9?

[Chris Kaihatsu]

-- Forwarded Message --

Andy Rice here.

In response to "k.skvorak" from NYC (below), I invite further input on
any errors, or correct analysis, I may have made in commenting on the
recent polemics from Warcry.

I have proposed that all intros should be collected in one place, so
people don't have to wade through the entire archive to find one.  But as
usual, nobody has responded or acted on that obvious need.  I also think
those intros should be required to be more revealing than they usually
are, as to who a person really is, and where they are coming from,
exactly, politically, and organizationally.

My intro to Process list is linked below.  For some reason it posted with
no wrap, making it hard to read.  If you copy and paste it into a word
document, then it should wrap properly, for easier reading.

Re: Chuck0's defense of Eugene "imc"  (includes android9 intro):
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-process/2002-June/003456.html

Resolve intro (includes summary of objections re: Eugene "imc"):
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/resolve/1904-January/000008.html

Communication intro: (my only post there, I think)
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-communication/2002-August/0022
53.html

If you search the Portland IMC site for "Southern Oregon IMC Pod", you
will also find numerous newswire posts which were all compiled and edited
by me, from the Media Collective email and other sources.  Several of
these were featured in the center column, thus going out to the global
wire.

If you search the same site for "android9", you will also find many more
posts of a more personal interest or commentary nature.
 http://portland.indymedia.org/

Now I wonder if the "sometimes notorious" Kevin will reciprocate with a
similarly revealing referral to his own intro, and some other clear
indications of where he is really coming from, exactly?

Is he perchance a GA chaos freak, offended that I would dare to criticize
his tendency, yet serving to perfectly confirm my complaints about their
propensity for such unpricipled "criticism"?  Or not....?

As is so often the case with such hostile responses to my posts, the
detractor engages in adhominem dismissal, trying to brush me off as some
kind of "disrupter" or a godamn cop, providing absolutely no basis in
fact or documentation for such deliberate slanders.

If I have erred in my accounting of what happened in NYC re: Warcry, or
my analysis of her recent polemics attacking the IMC Principles of
Unity,  Kevin provides no means for setting me, or anyone else straight,
but just resorts to calling me names. What the fuck is up with that?  Are
people supposed to "trust" this person more than me?  On what basis?

Even if I have erred, or extrapolated incorrectly from afar, in some
regards, that does not erase all of the facts that I cited, nor negate my
analysis of the basic situation, re: Warcry, her involvement in the
new-imc "approval" of the bogus GA Eugene "imc", and the tendency of
theory and practice she represents.

There is a big difference between bringing incisive and documented
criticism of specific elements of an individual's practice, and the
"personal attacks" Kevin seeks to accuse me of, but in fact chooses to
engage in himself, with no facts, no basis, no principle or reason except
to slag me, and evade the issues I have raised.

Like Warcry, at NYC IndyPrint, but for virtually the opposite reasons
(she sought to defy consensus, I sought to "impose" compliance with IMC
principles and documentation), I have indeed been "banned", from Portland
IMC by the edcom clique, which is no secret. They used the same kind of
lies and slanders articulated by Kevin, and cited my criticism of Eugene
"imc" and Warcry, as "proof" that I should be purged.  When the General
Collective decided against those actions, the ecom cllique pulled a bogus
"meeting" and dissolved the GC, subsuming all power to their hand-picked
circle of chaos freaks.

This occurred after a year or more of agitation, lobbying and sabotage by
edcom against the GC, including embroiling the collective in endless
contentious bickering, and overt calls for a boycott of the GC, long
before I got involved, successfully crippling pdx imc to set it up for
their ultimate machiavellian coup.

Ever since I first objected to the bogus Eugene GA "imc", (April 01?) a
few people have indeed been screaming for my removal, right up to the
present.  Not once have they even tried to refute one detail of my
position, or provided one scrap of documentation or fact to the contrary,
nothing but slander and adhominem dismissal, which at some point I would
think people would begin to take as proof that I must be right, and that
they must be full of shit.

Am I angry and critical? I cannot deny my subjectivity on these matters.
But I challenge anyone to refute the facts, or my analysis, in any other
way than merely calling me a liar or a goddamn cop. If this so-called
"collective" would actually seriously pursue some conflict resolution
process, maybe I would not get so strident and verbiose in my attempts to
seek recourse.

Andy Rice (aka android9)

"k.skvorak" wrote:

> just curious,
>
> was android 9 banned from this list or others?
>
> and who is he and what collective does he (you) work with?
>
> i am at the nyc imc and have been involved in a conflict that has
> been ongoing there, and i have posted to this list about it.  we are
> actually trying to move fwd in a responsible way, even though there
> are big disagreements and hurt feelings here.  i am not really sure
> that posting to this global list is helpful or not,  (perhaps it is
> not because it allows people like him to do what he does) but it is
> an experiment- more details of our ongoing efforts are available on
> the nyc resolve list
>
> android 9 commented on those posts and other  posts, with what
> appears to be considerable anger/criticism, etc. making personal
> attacks against  different folks whom i know he does not know
> personally or even through shared collective work.
>
>   I also know for sure that he has no personal knowledge whatsoever of
> conflicts ongoing at the NYC IMC, yet he made very complex (and
> completely wrong) critiques that though we  (on both sides of the
> conflict here in nyc) see  as  nonsensical, there are others on this
> list that may not realize that, and believe his (seemingly)
> passionately written posts hold some meaning
>
> anyway, wether android 9 is a provocteur or not, his posts seem to
> achieve the same affect- sowing confusion, misaprehension, mistrust
> etc.
>
> so again:  what collective does he work with?  and has anyone there
> spoken to him about this behaviour?  it seems like folks are trying
> to ban him, but what does his community say? and have they already
> banned him?
>
> peace,
> kevin s
> (sometimes notorious at)
> nyc imc
>

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