[CIMC-working] (liaisons' functioning on the global lists) FW: [IMC-Process]
about this list (and the global lists in general)
Chris Kaihatsu
ckaihatsu at myrealbox.com
Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:37:20 -0600
------ Forwarded Message
From: Tony <cactus@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:56:07 +0100
To: imc-process@indymedia.org, imc-uk-network@lists.indymedia.org
Subject: Re: [IMC-Process] about this list (and the global lists in general)
Hello all
I think these two posts from Changsing and Martin bring up some very
important thoughts... very relevant to the resent situation.
Maybe we are trying to hard to sort out issues that we will never
agree on - arguing for the sake of it and ending up going round in
circles. As there has never been a liason system set for the Process
list - we are never sure who decides what, where and when! (i know
the facilitation team were working on this - maybe it will work in
time).
Our local/regional autonomy is an important part of Indymedia, and
that is where alot of our efforts are concentrated. I certainly feel
more comfortable working on lists where at least i have met the
people involved, and at a regional level many of us have met.
I do not want to take away from the amazing work many have put in to
the global lists - we have had to establish some common ground, and
that has been good. Maybe the size of indymedia has outgrown our
lists for the moment. Is now the time to research how we can work
more regionally and yet still keep informed and conected at a global
level.
I don't have time just now to come up with further ideas - but do
feel more time is needed on this over the next weeks...
cheers tony
----------
Some notes:
- Global lists:
In general local liasons are not managing to get responses back to
the global network - either because they are concentrating on local
work or because the global lists move so fast (in conversation not
results!)
It seems to work to some extent on the Finance list - where the
proposals are concrete and local liasons can ask questions and send
responses (even if few do). The Communication list also works for
general communication, both of these are liason based. And the global
list like tech, features, print, video, radio seem all to work as the
goals are clear and 'language' common. Process stands out from these
as the one that is too general.
- Working groups:
These have worked well, giving themselves simple tasks, like 'Comms
WG' organising and running the Global IRC chats etc. The new-imc list
works well, etc. Also working groups provide a space for others not
directly linked to a local IMC to be involved. But we need to make
sure others have time to read and respond to proposals, especially if
they effect all of us.
>hi all,
>
>my name is martin and i am part of the forming lancaster collective. I have
>been following this list for a year or more.
>
>concerning the regional/gathering/face2face issue:
>
>perhaps there should not be _a_ global network, but a global collective of
>variosu levels of regional networks, such as the one that is seemingly
>forming here on the island (england, scotland, wales), namely the United
>Kollektives (UK Indymedia) - from whose perspective the next level (up) in
>the Indy "organisation" is the Europe-level. That means that Lancaster is
>pert of UK, which is part of Europe that in the end of course is part of the
>whole world.............
>
>BUT: Do we really need a global uniformity? Do we want it? I think not, at
>least not yet....
>
>What i mean is that a global uniformity is maybe too farfetched and removed
>from our everyday..
>
>Could, indeed should, not Africa have their contextualised/localised
>constitution? And Asia, and so on?
>
>If the global lists fail, it might just be because it is too far from our
>realities; and that is why i suggest that we build our architecture from the
>bottom.... forget about the global level at the moment - the US groups sort
>their own stuff (somewhere else) and the global lists should be about
>exchange of information and sharing experiences - learning from each other,
>rather then teaching each other _what is right_ ...... imagine process as a
>list that carries happy tidings, or frustrations that someone could help out
>with or congratulations..... that indicates to me a sound process: exchange
>of what is beeing achieved and how such achievements came about... (that
>also leaves those who want to decide for others out of this forum, be
>keeping decisions at local and regional levels.
>
>just a thought that might need some clarification, but the idea should be
>easy to understand: the global level is maybe an impossibility at the
>moment - and might even be undesirable, due to regional/cultural/etc
>differences...
>
>//m//
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "changsing" <changsing@paranoici.org>
>To: <imc-process@lists.indymedia.org>
>Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 12:19 PM
>Subject: [IMC-Process] about this list (and the global lists in general)
>
>
>> Hello. I'd like to share some of my thoughts about how imc-process, as
>> well as many other global mailing lists, have been working in the last
>> few months.
>> It's kinda clear to me that the facilitation experiment on this list has
>> failed. The facilitators couldn't establish a ground of healthy
>> cooperation, and the list failed to provide them with a policy to guide
>> their job. Moreover, there has been a lack of interest around the whole
>> facilitation issue, ever since it had been proposed (in my opinion).
>> Also, i fail to see how someone who can't facilitate him/herself would
>> be able to facilitate a whole list. Almost half of the 50 emails that
>> went through imc-process yesterday are by either John or Doug (the two
>> active facilitators). Needless to say, they're very long and not in the
>> simplest english i've read.
>> So, thank you very much john and doug for your efforts, but it really
>> looks like you can't take on the task of facilitating the list, until
>> you learn at the very least how to facilitate yourself.
>> Also, you blocked some messages to this list without letting us know,
>> and without a policy stating that that kind of messages was to be blocked.
>> But, on the other side, you didn't block andy rice messages, which are
>> the clearest example of attempts of hijacking the imc network.
>> As if this was not enough, now you want to turn the screening back on to
>> block chuck0 responses...
>> No offence to you (i really appreciate your efforts), but this
>> facilitation project is not working as it should, and in my opinion it
>> must end now.
>>
>> But anyway, facilitation is probably a marginal issue, at this point.
>> What we're facing is not
>> the failure of the facilitation proposal, but the failure of
>> itnernational lists.
>> The participation is very scarce, and the rare times that some
>> discussion goes on, it is carried on by just a few individuals, and
>> rarely it involves (or at least it tries to do so) the whole network.
>> Liaisons haven't been functioning: i've never seen liaison people
>> reporting back decisions taken at local level.
>> This list, as it has always been since i subscribed to it, is just
>> hosting personal debates between english mother tongue imcers, mostly
>> from the usa.
>> It seems that we're not being able to come up with a network-wide
>> process which allows everyone to participate to discussions and
>> decisions. At the same time, i think we can safely say that, on most
>> local imcs behalf, there is a lack of interest towards network-wide
>> discussion.
>> I think it would be good if each imc could go back to local level and
>> discuss wether they think it's important to define a network-wide
>> decision making process, and if so, how to allow everyone to take part
>> to it. It would be good to know what the smallest and poorest imcs think
>> about it, to know what stops them from participating, how they think
>> we could improve things, and so on.
>> (this is what we should have been doing with imc-europe-commwork, but it
>> hasn't been working so far).
>> Otherwise we'll keep having proposals, discussions, and decisions coming
>> from the same individuals.
>> changsing
>>
>> P.S: i hope what i wrote is clear enough. it might sound strange to you,
>> but english is not the mother tongue for everyone.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> imc-process mailing list
>> imc-process@lists.indymedia.org
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-process
>>
>>
>>
>
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