[CIMC-work] ('stallman server crisis,
' global donation button) Fwd: [Imc-communication]
[imc-portugaliza] (PT, ES,
EN) Proposal: REMOVE the 'Make a Donation' button from global site]
Chris Kaihatsu
ckaihatsu at myrealbox.com
Sat Feb 28 15:38:51 PST 2004
Begin forwarded message:
> From: strafwetboek at causaencantada.org
> Date: January 4, 2004 8:48:02 PM CST
> To: www-features at lists.indymedia.org
> Cc: imc-global at lists.indymedia.org,
> imc-communication at lists.indymedia.org,
> imc-process at lists.indymedia.org, imc-finance at lists.indymedia.org,
> imc-proposals at lists.indymedia.org
> Subject: [Imc-communication] [imc-portugaliza] (PT, ES, EN) Proposal:
> REMOVE the 'Make a Donation' button from global site]
>
> (to be discussed at www-features at lists.indymedia.org)
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------- PT (ES,EN translation below) -----
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Olá a tod at s
>
> Posto que a crise do servidor stallman foi superada é hora de rever o
> tema visto que causou, e ainda causa, uma grande confusão e o
> sentimento desconfortável de temer que a tecnocracia suplante o
> consenso, que é o solo onde esta rede cresceu.
>
> Esta problemática vem da questão 'stallman server crisis'. De forma
> abreviada a crise começou em Outubro de 2003 quando o alojamento
> gratuito do nó central foi noticiado, tendo como prazo limite
> 2003/12/01. Foi criada a mailing list www-migration, o canal irc
> #server_crisis e a página wiki server coordination para coordenar as
> várias faces deste problema extremamente complexo:
>
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ServerCoordination
>
> Derivada directamente desta nova situação uma nova linha de
> financiamento de custos foi iniciada quando o referido esboço de Apelo
> para doações para a crise do servidor ("Call for server crisis
> donations -- draft") chegou às listas imc-tech a 2002/11/01, que seria
> entregue à lista global aparecendo como destaque central a 2003/12/13
> quando o software MIR começou a trabalhar em substituição do anterior
> CMS
>
> http://www.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/110141.shtml
>
> Como consequência, dez dias depois, a proposta Apelo para doações
> ic-tech (Call for imc-tech donations") chega à www-features mailing
> list, que após um desculpado- consenso silencioso de 24 horas foi
> publicado na coluna central do site global.
>
> Esta proposta tem, pelo menos, dois problemas críticos relacionados
> com a utilização do botão donation, que necessita de ser calma e
> cuidadosamente revista antes de cometida posto que concerne a toda a
> rede indymedia.
>
> i) Da forma como eu vejo as coisas, o Indymedia não se pode envolver
> com empresas comerciais: (parte K. do Membership Criteria "IMCs não
> devem em nenhum caso envolver-se com empresas comerciais com fins
> lucrativos (...)" ver:
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2001-May/
> 000155.html). Aquele botão é uma ligação para um projecto comercial
> chamado "PayPal" que é parte de uma outra companhia chamada "eBay" que
> joga no jogo Nasdaq, relacionado com o jogo do FMI+OMC+BM.
>
> http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-
> outside
> http://investor.ebay.com/
>
> ii) O cliente PayPal é o IMC Urbana-Campaign na América do Norte. Doar
> através deste sistema a este IMC implica apoiar indirectamente a ideia
> de pagar a pessoas para trabalhar no IMC em vez de o fazerem
> voluntariamente:
>
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2003-October/
> 005236.html
>
> assim como, estendendo a toda a rede um conceito de gestão financeira
> que não está de acordo com a descentralização e com a constituição de
> colectivos autónomos.
>
> Desde que a crise do servidor foi superada, e considerando os
> problemas expostos, a minha proposta é a de não aceitar a proposta do
> "botão de donativos mais permanente na coluna de navegação azul do
> lado esquerdo (similar à caixa "ALERT")" até que encontremos uma forma
> consensual e descentralizada de aceitar donativos que não nos envolva
> no jogo do jogo FMI+OMC+BM.
>
> Na prática, isto significa remover os actuais botão e ligações "donate
> online" e substitui-los por um "contacte o seu IMC local se desejar
> fazer donativos" até que decidamos o que fazer globalmente.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------- ES (EN translation below) -----
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hola a todas
>
> Puesto que hemos superado la 'stallman server crisis', ha llegado el
> momento de revisar este asunto porque ha causado -y aun causa- mucha
> confusión y la desagradable sensación de temor a que la tecnocracia
> suplante al consenso, que es la tierra en la que brotó esta red.
>
> El problema llega con el asunto de la "crisis del servidor stallman".
> Brevemente, la crisis comenzó en octubre de 2003 cuando nos fué
> notificada el final del hosting gratuíto para el nodo central con
> fecha límite 20031201. Se pusieron en funcionamiento la lista de
> correo www-migration, el canal #server_crisis de irc, y pagina wiki
> ServerCoordination, para coordinar las diversas facetas de este
> complejo prolema:
>
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ServerCoordination
>
> Se derivó de esta nueva situación, una nueva línea de costes de
> financiación que comenzó cuando el referido "Call for servers crisis
> donations --draft" llegó a la lista de imc-tech en 20031101, que será
> despues enviado a la lista global apareciendo en la columna central el
> 20031213, cuando el software MIR reemplazaba al anterior CMS.
>
> http://www.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/110141.shtml
>
> Como consecuencia, diez dias despues, la PROPUESTA "Llamamiento para
> donaciones para el imc-tech" llegó a la lista www-features, que
> despues de un -disculpado- consenso silencioso de 24 horas fue
> pilicado en la columna central del site global.
>
> Esta propuesta tiene, al menos, dos problemas críticos relacionados
> con el uso de "el botón de donación", que necesitan ser cuidadosamente
> revisados antes de ejecutarlos, pues concierne a la red indymedia
> entera.
>
> i) Tal cual yo entiendo las cosas, Indymedia no debería verse envuelta
> en negocios comerciales: parte K del Membership Criteria: "IMCs shall
> in no way engage in commercial for-profit enterprises (...)" ver
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2001-May/
> 000155.html). Este botón es un link para un proyecto comercial llamado
> "Paypal" que es parte de otra compañía llamada "eBay" que cotiza en el
> Nasdaq, lo que nos relaciona con los juegos del FMI, OMC y Banco
> Mundial.
>
> http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-
> outside
> http://investor.ebay.com/
>
> ii) El cliente de pago es el Urbana-Champaign IMC, de norte américa.
> Donar online a este IMC implica apoyar directamente la idea de pagar a
> gente por hacer el trabajo en el IMC, en vez de ser aportaciones
> voluntarias.
>
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2003-October/
> 005236.html
>
> Tambien extiende sobre la red entera un concepto de financiamiento que
> no corresponde con la descentralización ni la constitución de
> colectivos autónomos, sino de relaciones de dependencia.
>
> Puesto que la crisis del servidor fue superada, y considerando los
> problemas expuestos, mi propuesta es no aceptar la propuesta de "more
> permanent donation button in the left-hand blue navigation column
> (similar to the "ALERT" box)" en la columna izquierda de navegación
> hasta que encontremos un modo descentralizado y consensuado para
> aceptar donaciones que no implique bailar al son del IMF, WTO, MB.
>
> En la practica, esto supone eliminar el actual botón "donate online" y
> re-emplazarlo por "contacta a tu imc si quieres hacer donaciones"
> hasta que decidamos globalmente qué hacer.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------- (EN translation below) -----
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Hi all
>
> Since the server crisis has been averted, its time to review this
> subject because it has caused -and still is- a lot of confusion and
> the unconfortable feeling of fearing technocracy supplanting
> consensus, wich is the land where this net growed up.
>
>
> This problematic comes from the 'stallman server crisis' thing.
> Briefly, the crisis begun in October 2003 when the end of the free
> hosting for the central node was noticed with 20031201 as the
> deadline. It was setted up the www-migration mailing list,
> #server_crisis irc channel and the ServerCoordination wiki page to
> coordinate the various faces of this very complex problem:
>
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Sysadmin/ServerCoordination
>
> Directly derived from this new situation, a new line of financing
> costs was started when the refered "Call for server crisis donations
> -- draft" arrived at the imc-tech list at 20021101, wich will be
> delivered to global list and will appeared as a central column feature
> at 20031213 when MIR software begun to work as a replacement to the
> previous CMS.
>
> http://www.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/110141.shtml
>
> As a consecuence, ten days after, the "PROPOSAL: Call for imc-tech
> donations" arrives at www-features mailing list, wich after an
> -apologized- silence consensus of 24 hours was published in the center
> column of the global site.
>
> This proposal has, at least, two critical problems related to the use
> of a 'donation button' wich needs to be slowly and carefully reviewed
> before commited as it concerns to the entire indymedia network.
>
> i) As long as I understand things, Indymedia might not be involved in
> commercial enterprises: (part K. of the Membership Criteria: "IMCs
> shall in no way engage in commercial for-profit enterprises (...)"
> see:
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2001-May/
> 000155.html). That button is a link for a commercial project called
> 'Paypal' wich is part of another company called 'eBay' wich plays the
> Nasdaq game, related with the IMF+WTO+MB game. >
>
> http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-
> outside
> http://investor.ebay.com/
>
> ii) The PayPal client is the Urbana-Champaing IMC at north-america. To
> donate online to this imc implies to indirectly support the idea of
> paying people to do work in the IMC instead of voluntary apportations:
>
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2003-October/
> 005236.html
>
> also extending to the entire network a financial management concept
> wich does not agree with decentralization plus the constitution of
> autonomous collectives, but dependant ones.
>
> Since the server crisis was averted, and considering the problems
> explained, my proposal is to not accept the "more permanent donation
> button in the left-hand blue navigation column (similar to the "ALERT"
> box)" proposal until we find a consensual decentralized way to accept
> donations wich does not imply us in the IMF+WTO+MB game.
>
> Practically, this means to remove the current 'donate online' buttons
> and links or replacing it by a 'contact your local imc if you want to
> make donations' until globally we decide what to do.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> --------
>>> PROPOSAL
>>> --------
>>>
>>> I would like to put up a call for donations for imc-tech in the
>>> center
>>> column of www.indymedia.org, to help pay for shipping, hardware and
>>> other expenses related to the recent server migration (crisis); and
>>> also insert a more permanent donation button in the left-hand blue
>>> navigation column (similar to the "ALERT" box).
>>>
>>> Please find the proposed text below. I will assume silent consensus
>>> and post this within the next 24 hours if there are no concerns or
>>> blocks. I apologize for the bad timing, but wanted to get this up
>>> during the holidays.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>> SERVER_CRISIS: At short notice, Indymedia has had to change web
>>> hosting providers and replace crucial computer hardware, and needs
>>> funds to cover hardware costs, shipping and other expenses. Please
>>> donate to imc-tech to keep your servers running.
>>>
>>> [Make a Donation button]
>>>
>>> Donations of programming/sysadmin skills, server hardware and
>>> bandwidth are also greatly appreciated > email imc-tech or visit
>>> irc.indymedia.org, #server_crisis.
>>>
>>> ----------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> Imc-portugaliza at lists.indymedia.org
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>>
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>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
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>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
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