[CIMC-work] oh boy. read this one.

Sat Jun 19 15:17:56 PDT 2004

Thanks for passing this along, Garth -- I'm on the US-Process list and
reading this thread as it developed got me to thinking and
*third*-guessing myself that maybe CIMCers may want to be on this list
as well....

The thing that comes to mind is that, based on the volunteer principle,
perhaps some people may _volunteer_ to donate funds to offset direct
costs incurred in specific IMC projects...? Perhaps "micro-funding", on
a per-project basis...? (Kinda like temp work, but with much more
meaning and significance...!)

Chris K.

___

Hiding the gulag -- Things have gotten so bad, the Bush administration
is lying even to its own lawyers
tinyurl.com/3fark [Boston Phoenix]

All those concerned by the assault on basic democratic rights must
oppose the show trials being prepared at Guantanamo Bay, insist on the
immediate and unconditional release of all detainees and demand that
Howard and his colleagues be placed on trial for war crimes, alongside
their counterparts in Washington.
www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/gbay-18j.shtml

Recently, Haiti has seen large demonstrations against the coup. One
crowd, estimated by Reuters at more than 10,000, marched on the US
embassy in Port-au-Prince to denounce the coup and demand the
withdrawal of US and French troops from the Caribbean island.
www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/spai-j16.shtml

Photoillustrations by Chris Kaihatsu
community.webshots.com/user/ckaihatsu/

Garth Liebhaber wrote:
>---- Begin Included Message ----
>
>From: "John Windmueller" <john at conflictresolver.com>
>Sent: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:56:52 -0400
>To: <imc-us-process at indymedia.org>
>Subject: RE: [imc-us-process] Re: [IMC-US] RE: Indymedia Newsreal TourGrantProposal
>
>
>Hi Blank.
>
>I hear that you think what is going on with the IMC tour project is
>extremely wrong.  I honestly don't know enough about it to have an opinion,
>but I'm certainly going to try and learn more about the work.  
>
>The reason I suggested some open dialogue is because, for good or bad, we
>don't have mechanisms of coercive authority in the Indymedia network.  No
>matter how angry or frustrated folks are that an action may be wrong,
>there's very little that can be done to force a group of IMC folks to do
>things one way or the other.  That usually takes persuasion, and my take is
>that people aren't always very persuaded when they're being attacked.  
>
>Again, curious to hear more folks' thoughts on this.  
>
>John
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: imc-us-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org [mailto:imc-us-process-
>> bounces at lists.indymedia.org] On Behalf Of blank at riseup.net
>> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:06 AM
>> To: imc-us-process at lists.indymedia.org
>> Subject: RE: [imc-us-process] Re: [IMC-US] RE: Indymedia Newsreal Tour
>> GrantProposal
>> 
>> When it comes to indymedia and "payment" for personal gain (i.e. money to
>> a person for indymedia work), that is not cool, and I feel goes against
>> the spirit of indymedia.
>> 
>> Everyone should know that by *volunteering* for indymedia you are not here
>> to get paid (hence what volunteering is all about).
>> 
>> Right now I'm not interested in common ground because what is going on
>> with the u.s. indymedia newsreal is fucked up. Right now as we speak the
>> people who are putting together this tour are outright lying to get their
>> funding. Do you really want to spend the time to find common ground to
>> support such an action? I sure as hell don't, and I find that to be a
>> waste of time. Lying for money! How bad do things need to get?
>> 
>> don't believe me, sign onto the imc-satellite list and start asking about
>> the non-profit that is being used for a good chunk to fund this tour which
>> is all about "getting the vote out" for this upcoming election. Since when
>> did the indymedia newsreal become an artifice to promote voting in the
>> united states?
>> 
>> "INDYMEDIA NEWSREAL is a monthly television and screening series. Each
>> half-hour program covers actions taken in local communities, to address
>> critical issues like air and water pollution, reproductive rights,
>> homelessness, for-profit prisons, sweatshops, racism, police brutality,
>> indigenous struggles, and more."
>> 
>> http://www.indymedia.org/projects.php3
>> 
>> Addressing the concerns of voter turnout in a segment on the newsreal is
>> one thing, but to go out and say your going to use the indymedia newsreal
>> to secure a grant and get funding for a tour to promote voting is another.
>> 
>> The motovation for this tour is not one to help empower people to become
>> the media (or make media even if it says that in the grant proposal), it's
>> profit, personal gain. Go to the imc-satellite list and check out the
>> amount of money these people want to go on this tour ($5000) each, and
>> then their is the proposed outside contracted videographer that has
>> nothing to do with indymedia who will also get paid $5000, plus rental
>> cars, hotels, etc that are in the proposal. There are many people in the
>> network that are within indymedia that would do this tour gladly, and not
>> get paid at all.
>> 
>> The only argument to counter that I've seen over the satellite list is
>> that, "people need to eat, people need to live." Well those people were
>> doing just fine before any proposal for any tour of any kind. That kind of
>> argument stating "people need to eat, people need to live" to let this
>> continue is weak and pathetic, and I'm calling it out.
>> 
>> The idea of a u.s. indymedia newsreal tour is a good one, one that I
>> support, but the methods involved to get funding for this grant proposal
>> are disgusting. I'll say again, disgusting. I find this to be very
>> destructive behavior using the name of indymedia for personal gain and
>> profit. One that I will oppose over and over again. It sets a precedent
>> which will create a hierarchical, authoritarian, method to "make a living
>> doing indymedia work," which if has been openly said over the
>> imc-satellite list.
>> 
>> By allowing this sort of behavoir to continue is in direct violation of
>> the principles of unity.
>> 
>> "6. All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and are
>> committed to the development of non-hierarchical and anti-authoritarian
>> relationships, from interpersonal relationships to group dynamics.
>> Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and be committed to the
>> principle of consensus decision making and the development of a direct,
>> participatory democratic process] that is transparent to its membership."
>> 
>> The current draft of the principles of unity can be found here:
>> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity
>> 
>> That's all I got for now, I'll have more later. I need to get some sleep.
>> 
>> blank (portland imc) *volunteer*
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > Hi everyone.
>> >
>> > As one idea, instead of jumping to frame this as who is right or wrong
>> > about
>> > Indymedia policy toward payment and money, why don't we just start off
>> by
>> > trying to hear what different folks think right now.
>> >
>> > It's something that there's clearly going to be disagreement over, and
>> > hashing out a clearer practice people can live with will take some
>> > creativity and compromise.  But maybe just starting with some open
>> > dialogue
>> > will help give everyone a better idea of where most folks are sitting
>> with
>> > this and give some hints on where there's common ground.
>> >
>> > What do other folks think about money and Indymedia?...
>> > Are there ever points where you think Indymedia labor should be
>> > compensated?
>> > Why or why not?
>> > What principles should go into making decisions about that kind of money
>> > issue?
>> >
>> > Just curious,
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > imc-us-process mailing list
>> > imc-us-process at lists.indymedia.org
>> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-us-process
>> >
>> 
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