[CIMC-work] Fwd: Re: [imc-us-process] Arbitration Railroad etc

Sun Mar 7 18:12:59 PST 2004

hey,
for anyone able to follow somewhat this conflict, I thought 
this a very eloquently letter from Indybay.  I am feeling 
more compelled that the rest of the Indymedia network 
should put the meaning of solidarity to reality, and make 
a 'judgement' in this situation and exert pressure as we 
can.  Speaking as I see it, i think SF IMC is 'guilty' and that 
they need to move on these issues that have left indybay 
hanging.

what i think we have going on here with SF IMC is abusive.   
Like a divorced father withholding childsupport from the 
woman raising his child in the name of his sense of 
power.  While there has been that sense of not 'getting 
involved', I think it is reckless of the network to do so.  
which we are not, there has been much positive input for 
mediation/arbitration process.  But SF IMC is not doing 
what they agreed to.  We cannot stand by as these abuses 
continue.

garth

---- Begin Included Message ----

From: sfschism at riseup.net
Sent: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:17:09 -0800 (PST)
To: "A process discussion list for U.S.-based IMCs" <imc-
us-process at lists.indymedia.org>
Subject: Re: [imc-us-process] Arbitration Railroad etc

> I agree that the emails about SFBAY's problem with SF is 
out of hand
> on this list, and should be toned back in volume, at 
least.
Our "problem" with SF?  I feel this warrants a clear 
clarification: is
Gekked saying that SF-IMC has no problem right now?  
That they are happy
with the current state of Indymedia in the Bay Area?  In a 
way, I can
quite see how that could be possible - after all, they did 
get exactly
everything they wanted out of the mediation, while we are 
still waiting
for it to be fulfilled.

> situation we have now, with deadlines being sent to this 
list by Sunny
> of stuff we don't even know what it exactly means.
What else do you need clarififed, Gekked?  I am unclear as 
to whether or
not you are speaking for the whole group and their 
concerns in general, or
just your own, as an ad hoc liaison.  In fact, I'm not sure 
who the
liaison is.  In any case, you have put us in an interesting 
position as to
how to proceed:  you don't want to have an arbitration 
until we decide the
outcome, yet we can't decide an outcome without an 
actual arbitration.  I
think John has been very clear about the process itself and 
how it would
be conducted, and the "stuff" to be decided has already 
been stated, as
well.  SF-IMC sent out a "proposal" almost two months 
ago detailing what
their demands of  SF Bay were and SF Bay sent out a 
proposal as well,
saying only that they would like the mediation to be 
upheld by both sides.
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-us-process/
2004-January/000344.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-us-process/
2004-January/000374.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-us-process/
2004-February/000416.html
Am I the only one who feels like this is quite a substantial 
pool of
information to work from?

> And it all feels very coercive -- like SFBAY has pointed 
the gun at
> our head and what happens if we don't meet their 
deadline? Will they
> spam the newswires again with rumors and accusations 
about us? Will
> they again post personal information about us on global 
lists? Will
> they follow through on any of the other threats we've 
received in
> private or public?
Are you enquiring what further actions we will take to:
1) get the crucial link on the sf.indymedia.org site that we 
have all put
years of work into and helped build into the site it is 
today, a site that
we only turned over to your group because we were 
promised an end to the
conflict, a link on the site, in addition to the fact that you 
told
everyone that either you got sf.indymedia.org OR you 
refused to take part
in the mediation
2) get the money owed us taken out of our bank account
3) most importantly, OBTAIN OWNERSHIP of the one url we 
were promised, the
old website domain of indybay.org which has begun to 
phase out over the
last year or so.
???????
Any suggestions for how we SHOULD deal with that?  I'm 
drawing a blank
here...
If you are feeling coerced into upholding your end of the 
mediation you
asked for, Gekked, than why on earth did we all pay 
money to sit through
endless sessions where WE were railroaded and told this 
was the ONLY way
to end the conflict?

> Unfortunately, this form of "bullying process" in place of 
consensus
> or any other kind of process is one of the main reasons 
we chose to
> stop working with the SFBAY people in the first place.

Who are the bullies here?????  We have patiently and 
respectfully danced
around from one list to another, attempting to utilize 
process and
substantial reserve in playing the game of... waiting.  
Waiting for an
answer, waiting for an end to this gut-wrenching conflict 
which has
literally monopolized our lives for almost an entire year 
now, and waiting
for a ray of hope that could someone put this all into 
perspective.  If
people were in our shoes, how would you endeavor to 
handle this situation?
 This is a genuine question on my part.  I am at a total 
loss here, and if
anyone else has an idea of how they could possibly handle 
this situation
better, I am sincerely interested in hearing it.  I feel that 
our
collective has bent over _backwards_ in an attempt to try 
and find a
solution to our problems through a semblage of process, 
long and drawn-out
as it may be.  We have upheld our end of the mediation, 
putting a link up
to a site that used to be ours on a website that we now 
don't even own,
months after a mediation agreement was agreed to by us 
all.  We have tried
to continue our coverage of the Bay Area in a positive way, 
even from the
blackout of a vaccum, where most of our old audience/
participants don't
even know we exist in.  How many people that used to 
come to
sf.indymedia.org to read up on issues that reflected them 
now don't even
know that we have left or that we are currently on a 
lesser-known url?

How long are we going to be in this holding pattern of 
sucking it up and
waiting and gritting our teeth through forced smiles?  
Obviously, we don't
get to be the ones to decide that.  Unfortunately, we didn't 
get blessed
with the tech-authority and powers to decide our own 
fate.  Sadly, we are
still waiting for this abuse of power to called out and 
ended.  I am
confused as to whether people think that we somehow 
have some power here,
some upper hand.

So, I guess my final question is:
SF-IMC, are you stating that you want to part in ending 
this conflict, you
have no interest in upholding the mediation agreement, 
and that you will
continue to ignore all efforts at finding some common 
ground?

If this is the case, we need to know that and we deserve 
an answer. 
Because, if that's the case, than you have wasted all of our 
time and we
need to explore other options.  We are still commmitted 
to allowing
volunteers from the Indymedia network to arbitrate this 
very real and
pressing conflict, but we need to know if we are just 
wasting our time
here.  Please honor us with a response.

-Sunny Angulo
SF Bay IMC

_______________________________________________
imc-us-process mailing list
imc-us-process at lists.indymedia.org
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-us-
process

---- End Included Message ----

Protect your right to breathe clean, smoke-free air:
http://www.care2.com/go/z/11238/1043