[Imc-finance] Request $2500 For Shipping Computers to Ecuador IMC + lists process, etc ...

[red kitten]

Sorry, let's be serious one minute:
a mail have been sent to the BELGIUM FINANCE LIST asking to approve or not 
a request for fund for $2,500 [ <= that's something, i think! ]

* PROJECT *

The project was really draftly described. We have no idea of what can be 
bought for that amount. We don't know where it's gonna go, who for, who 
will take care of it, etc ... I cannot judge if it's a good idea or not. So 
if we're asked to decide about something we don't know more than this, 
that's no decision, that's no democracy

* OVERVIEW OF FINANCE *

Not everybody have time to follow the finance list. If we're asked to take 
a decision concerning an amount of money, we have to know if it's a big 
part of the global amount. take $2,500 out of 5,000$ is another decision 
than to take it out of $60,000. It's also important to know how we got the 
money (no detail): the one-shot gift of Chubawamba won't happen every 
second day. But we can also see that we got $ XXX every year by paypal and 
donation, that it might come agin next year, approximatively for the same 
amount. I guess, and i hope, theer's a document showing an overview of the 
finance for last years somewher, please tell me where. If there's not such 
a thing, then there's a big problem!

* PROJECT DECISION *

I think we have to considere this seriously. To make up a procedure forsuch 
project will also make it easyer for people and IMCs to make request. If we 
know how much there is, what other projects are on the way, how to make a 
clear request, what have to be specified in it, what's possible and what's 
not, etc, if we know all that it's much more easyer to make a request and 
also much more easyer to make decision on this request!

* BUROCRACY vs. LISTOCRACY *

Once again: this is really not easy and not clear for people who aren't 
involved in those lists, it means: to the huge majority of people involved 
in Indymedia projects. Democracy isn't just saying, the info is there 
somewhere, you've to find it. Democracy is summarizing, showing the way, 
making it easyer to people to be involved and to participate. If i wanted 
to be democratic, i would come with this proposal to the next IMC Belgium 
meeting and ask people what they think about it, or at least send this 
proposal on the main lists ... but i don't even have infos enough, i 
wouldn't be able to answer a single question about it. Burocracy is what's 
happening now: member of the finance list are asked to say 'YES' or 'NO' to 
something they don't know about ... Let's makes thing more clear, or decide 
that, finally, a bunch of people can decide about it ... [ but then don't 
dare to talk about democracy vs. burocracy anymore, please! ]

+++
Bart: it's really not funny to read your unfriendly mail all the time, 
please make an effort, and write down arguments, not just 'that's stupid', 
'we don't need that'. If you think we have to agree with this financial 
request, tell us why you think it's a good idea, and what's the situtaion 
of the global finance, etc . Thank you. [ may i remind you that you took as 
a task, long time ago, to be the global liaison person for Belgium 
Indymedia? The idea was that you follow up global discussions, participate 
AND communicate it to the Belgium IMC collective to advocate ITS point of 
view in the network ... ]

cheerz /// solidarity

/// r e d . k i t t e n ///



At 11:01 04-09-02 +0200, Bart wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>red kitten heeft geschreven:
>| Hi Evan (thanx for that quick answer) hi all
>|
>| I don't really have specific questions, but first of all i think the
>| people proposing this project [ a container of computers to South
>| America ] should explain it from A till Z. What exactly will be bought,
>| who for, who is it gonna be given to, what's planned for fixing those
>| machines afterwards, etc, etc ...
>
>i think evan't mail was clear enough.
>
>|
>| Ths other point is the amount of money that can be given to one specific
>| project. To be able to be aware of the finance situation we should have
>| clear and readable figures including:
>| - how much money we have
>
>sascha sends this regularly out. to this list. it's easy to keep track.
>
>
>| - when + how did it comes [for every year, what's from pay-pal, what
>| from one shot gift, etc ... ]
>
>why ? why should we need that ?
>
>| - what are the regular cost [ servers, broadband, etc ]
>
>that's not for this account. there's a global tech account as well. has
>nothing to do with imc-finance.
>
>| - what are the other projects proposed at the moment
>
>none.
>
>
>|
>| I think we should proceed [ more or less ] like this: every 6 or 4
>| months gather the proposals, which should be made the same way [ fill in
>| form ] and that we had time to get information, discussion about it, etc
>| ... Then decide what project are gonna be done for the next months, and
>| how much money to every of them. [ <= weel this is a really, really
>| drafty proposal ]
>
>this is burocracy.
>it would limit us to fund projects only every couple of months. that
>makes totally NO sense at all.
>
>|
>| Because at the moment, proposal of emergency requests just fall in our
>| mail boxes and we can say 'YES' or 'NO' just according to a 10 lines
>| proposal ...
>|
>| solidarity /// respect
>|
>| /// r e d . k i t t e n ///
>|
>|
>|
>| At 16:57 03-09-02 -0700, you wrote:
>|
>|> Bart and Tim I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. There is a
>|> month for this and as i said that wasn't a final proposal. I'd really
>|> appricate it if you sent me specific questions so i could answer them
>|> before people make their decisions. Nobody's saying this is a one way
>|> process. Honestly i'd like to not have to take any money from the global
>|> fund but this project also has a lot of potential.
>|>
>|> It's my understanding that the global finance process that was agreeded
>|> upon was more or less in place. We needed to now try a few projects and
>|> see how it worked. If there is a problem then we can adjust. Honestly i
>|> haven't read all the mail over imc-finance so i'm not 100% on this. It
>|> would be nice if we could get the imc-finance process clearly stated and
>|> on teh wiki, if it's not already.
>|>
>|> For what it's worth this is still and active discussion about how this
>|> will all work out and grow within the latin american indymedia network.
>|>
>|> in solidarity,
>|> evan
>|>
>|> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, red kitten wrote:
>|>
>|> > I think that's really few informations for such a big project and
>|> such an
>|> > amount of money.
>|> > I'm a bit annoyed that we always ask us to say 'yes' or 'no' to a fund
>|> > request meanwhile we almost don't knwo anything about the projects
>|> and the
>|> > global situation of the finance and the needs.
>|> > This isn't really a serious way to work, i think. This looks perfectly
>|> > democratic, but actually this isn't at all: it's iresponsible.
>|> > We cannot make serious and aware decision this way, sorry.
>|> > For the rest, this project sounds really nice, that's not the point!
>|> =^_^=
>|> >
>|> > solidarity /// love 2 all [ ... and kill the bastards ]
>|> >
>|> > /// r e d . k i t t en /// belgium indymedia
>|> >
>|> > ===========================================
>|> >
>|> >
>|> > At 08:42 03-09-02 +0200, Bart wrote:
>|> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>|> > >Hash: SHA1
>|> > >
>|> > >gaat iedereen hiermee akkoord ?
>|> > >Bart
>|> > >
>|> > >- -------- Oorspronkelijke bericht --------
>|> > >Onderwerp: [Imc-finance] Request $2500 For Shipping Computers to
>|> Ecuador IMC
>|> > >Datum: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:04:20 -0700 (PDT)
>|> > >Van: evan@protest.net
>|> > >Antwoord-naar: evan@protest.net
>|> > >Aan: imc-finance@indymedia.org
>|> > >CC: sending_boxes@lists.riseup.net
>|> > >
>|> > >I'm not sure exactly what form a full request should be in  but
>|> this is a
>|> > >pre notice that it'll be coming down the pike in the next week or two.
>|> > >This is a project that a number of individuals from imc-tech,
>|> indymedia
>|> > >portland, san francisco, ecuador and the whole Latin Ameircan imc
>|> network
>|> > >have been working on. At their meeting on the 1st of September the
>|> latin
>|> > >american imc's came to agreement to back this project and request that
>|> > >some money from the imc global fund be used for this project. After
>|> > >shipping computers to ecuador both the Brasil and Argentina imc's
>|> are very
>|> > >interested in working on making this an ongoing project. This
>|> project has
>|> > >already attracted supportive foundation interest and we hope that
>|> it'll be
>|> > >funded in the future without drawing on existing indymedia global
>|> funds.
>|> > >
>|> > >Summary: Project to ship a container of approx. 250 to 400 refurbished
>|> > >~         computers to Ecuador to extend the technical capacity of
>|> > >~         civil society and the anti-globalization movement
>|> > >~         leading up to the anti-FTAA protests in early November.
>|> > >~         If successful this will be the first stage in an ongoing
>|> > >~         project to send large numbers of computers to social
>|> > >~         movements in the global south through indymedia.
>|> > >
>|> > >Date/Timeline:
>|> > >~         1 Month. We will be using the initial $2000 to $2500 we have
>|> > >         raised from friends of the portland imc for shipping
>|> costs. This
>|> > >         $2500 will be needed for fees, shipping, and storrage within
>|> > >         ecuador, training materials, and other unexpected expenses.
>|> > >         We expect to ship the container mid to late September with
>|> the
>|> > >         hope that we will be able to begin distributing by early
>|> > >         November.
>|> > >
>|> > >
>|> > >Proposal Description:
>|> > >
>|> > >The single most consistent request from indymedia activists in the
>|> global
>|> > >south is for computers and media making equipment. Even though the
>|> > >internet and computers are reshaping the world they are only doing
>|> it for
>|> > >those who have access to the equipment. For the past two and a half
>|> years
>|> > >indymedia has prided itself as a network which takes the tools of
>|> media
>|> > >and communications and puts them in the hands of people working for
>|> social
>|> > >change. For this mission to become a reality we need equipment.
>|> Computers
>|> > >play a central role in all media making and communication today. At
>|> the
>|> > >same time thousands good working computers are thrown out because
>|> they are
>|> > >a year or two out of date. This project thinks big and is
>|> attempting to
>|> > >not only solve the needs of a single organization but to build
>|> capacity
>|> > >across the breadth of the movement for a just society.
>|> > >
>|> > >By working with the Alameda County Computer Recycling Center
>|> (accrc.org)
>|> > >in Oakland and Free Geek in Portland we have found a free source of
>|> > >recycled computers. ACCRC and Free Geek take used computers from US
>|> > >companies and refurbishes them for non-profits, the poor, and
>|> educational
>|> > >institutions around the world. We are organizing our own labor to
>|> test the
>|> > >incoming boxes and put together the parts into useable systems with a
>|> > >Spanish language version of Linux installed. From there the ACCRC will
>|> > >load them up on to pallets and in to the container for shipping.
>|> Once the
>|> > >container arrives our Ecuadorian partner organizations will work
>|> with a
>|> > >customs import agent to get the boxes through customs and hauled up to
>|> > >Quito. In Quito we will be able to supply computers to all the groups
>|> > >coming in to town for the convergence against the FTAA at the
>|> beginning of
>|> > >November. To avoid the mistakes of past projects shipping computers
>|> we are
>|> > >working on putting together short workshops introducing the people and
>|> > >organizations receiving computers on basic use.
>|> > >
>|> > >We currently are doing outreach to groups in Ecuador and arranging
>|> > >logistics. At the moment we working with Indymedia Ecuador,
>|> CONFEUNASSC
>|> > >(The National Ecuadorian Campesino Organization), and Action
>|> Ecologica.
>|> > >These and other groups have been involved in coordinating the
>|> Ecuadorian
>|> > >Social Forum and have been central in the struggle to save the
>|> rainforest,
>|> > >against dolarization, and recently the privatization of
>|> electricity. While
>|> > >most groups in Ecuador have a couple computers there is a
>|> compelling need
>|> > >for more.
>|> > >
>|> > >Provisional Budget:
>|> > >
>|> > >Computers, monitors, printers, etc...         $0 (paper value
>|> $100,000)
>|> > >Shipping Container from Oakland to Guayaquil  $2500 for 20 foot
>|> container
>|> > >~                                              $3200 for 40 foot
>|> container
>|> > >Shipping in Ecuador and Customs               $2000 (guess)
>|> > >Trainings and training material               $500
>|> > >
>|> > >~                             Raised Already:  $2500
>|> > >~                             Total cost:      $5000 to $5700
>|> > >
>|> > >~                             Needed:          $2500
>|> > >
>|> > >For more information and to talk to us about this project please email
>|> > >evan@indymedia.org or call 707-822-1860.
>
>
>- --
>"Only two things are infinite,  the universe and human stupidity, and
>I'm not sure about the former." (Einstein)
>
>bart at indymedia.org   |       http://indymedia.be
>bart at thepits.be      |       http://thepits.be
>icq: 48682266
>
>gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-keys be196251
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
>Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
>iD8DBQE9dcvWPhTKOkQE2V0RAp8WAJ90mjT2hBfPYlyL4TMJ9vTkwBCBzACghU41
>dGqEZyDgzjiNLgYqRyhrNyc=
>=L4BW
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>