[Imc-finance] Request $2500 For Shipping Computers to Ecuador IMC + lists process, etc ...
Luis
Luis" <luis at indymedia.org
Wed Sep 4 14:00:09 2002
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C25403.4CCC7CE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
Well, as evan said, that e-mail was not a proper request, it was more a
draft, a pre notice of what this project is/will be about. It's clear that
he is only trying to help the latin american indymedia network and I thank
him for that. We could definitely find a good use for computers around
here (most of the collectives on Bolivia, for example, do not participate
on the latin american discussions because they do not have computers or
regular access to the internet).
Even then, I agree with 'red kitten' (sorry, I don't know your name) that
we need more info than we have right now to make a choice on donating the
$2500 or not.
Anyway, I just wanted to ask you all to be patient and to not stress about
the details at this time. We are discussing this project on the IMC-latina
list and I'm sure we will have a more clear proposal to make in no time.
Cheers for now,
Luis,
CMI Belo Horizonte, Brasil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "red kitten" <redkitten@indymedia.be>
To: "Bart" <bart@indymedia.org>
Cc: <evan@protest.net>; <imc-finance@indymedia.org>;
<imc-finance-belgium@indymedia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: [Imc-finance] Request $2500 For Shipping Computers to Ecuador IMC
+ lists process, etc ...
> Sorry, let's be serious one minute:
> a mail have been sent to the BELGIUM FINANCE LIST asking to approve or
not
> a request for fund for $2,500 [ <= that's something, i think! ]
>
> * PROJECT *
>
> The project was really draftly described. We have no idea of what can be
> bought for that amount. We don't know where it's gonna go, who for, who
> will take care of it, etc ... I cannot judge if it's a good idea or not.
So
> if we're asked to decide about something we don't know more than this,
> that's no decision, that's no democracy
>
> * OVERVIEW OF FINANCE *
>
> Not everybody have time to follow the finance list. If we're asked to
take
> a decision concerning an amount of money, we have to know if it's a big
> part of the global amount. take $2,500 out of 5,000$ is another decision
> than to take it out of $60,000. It's also important to know how we got
the
> money (no detail): the one-shot gift of Chubawamba won't happen every
> second day. But we can also see that we got $ XXX every year by paypal
and
> donation, that it might come agin next year, approximatively for the
same
> amount. I guess, and i hope, theer's a document showing an overview of
the
> finance for last years somewher, please tell me where. If there's not
such
> a thing, then there's a big problem!
>
> * PROJECT DECISION *
>
> I think we have to considere this seriously. To make up a procedure
forsuch
> project will also make it easyer for people and IMCs to make request. If
we
> know how much there is, what other projects are on the way, how to make
a
> clear request, what have to be specified in it, what's possible and
what's
> not, etc, if we know all that it's much more easyer to make a request
and
> also much more easyer to make decision on this request!
>
> * BUROCRACY vs. LISTOCRACY *
>
> Once again: this is really not easy and not clear for people who aren't
> involved in those lists, it means: to the huge majority of people
involved
> in Indymedia projects. Democracy isn't just saying, the info is there
> somewhere, you've to find it. Democracy is summarizing, showing the way,
> making it easyer to people to be involved and to participate. If i
wanted
> to be democratic, i would come with this proposal to the next IMC
Belgium
> meeting and ask people what they think about it, or at least send this
> proposal on the main lists ... but i don't even have infos enough, i
> wouldn't be able to answer a single question about it. Burocracy is
what's
> happening now: member of the finance list are asked to say 'YES' or 'NO'
to
> something they don't know about ... Let's makes thing more clear, or
decide
> that, finally, a bunch of people can decide about it ... [ but then
don't
> dare to talk about democracy vs. burocracy anymore, please! ]
>
> +++
> Bart: it's really not funny to read your unfriendly mail all the time,
> please make an effort, and write down arguments, not just 'that's
stupid',
> 'we don't need that'. If you think we have to agree with this financial
> request, tell us why you think it's a good idea, and what's the
situtaion
> of the global finance, etc . Thank you. [ may i remind you that you took
as
> a task, long time ago, to be the global liaison person for Belgium
> Indymedia? The idea was that you follow up global discussions,
participate
> AND communicate it to the Belgium IMC collective to advocate ITS point
of
> view in the network ... ]
>
> cheerz /// solidarity
>
> /// r e d . k i t t e n ///
>
>
>
> At 11:01 04-09-02 +0200, Bart wrote:
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >red kitten heeft geschreven:
> >| Hi Evan (thanx for that quick answer) hi all
> >|
> >| I don't really have specific questions, but first of all i think the
> >| people proposing this project [ a container of computers to South
> >| America ] should explain it from A till Z. What exactly will be
bought,
> >| who for, who is it gonna be given to, what's planned for fixing those
> >| machines afterwards, etc, etc ...
> >
> >i think evan't mail was clear enough.
> >
> >|
> >| Ths other point is the amount of money that can be given to one
specific
> >| project. To be able to be aware of the finance situation we should
have
> >| clear and readable figures including:
> >| - how much money we have
> >
> >sascha sends this regularly out. to this list. it's easy to keep track.
> >
> >
> >| - when + how did it comes [for every year, what's from pay-pal, what
> >| from one shot gift, etc ... ]
> >
> >why ? why should we need that ?
> >
> >| - what are the regular cost [ servers, broadband, etc ]
> >
> >that's not for this account. there's a global tech account as well. has
> >nothing to do with imc-finance.
> >
> >| - what are the other projects proposed at the moment
> >
> >none.
> >
> >
> >|
> >| I think we should proceed [ more or less ] like this: every 6 or 4
> >| months gather the proposals, which should be made the same way [ fill
in
> >| form ] and that we had time to get information, discussion about it,
etc
> >| ... Then decide what project are gonna be done for the next months,
and
> >| how much money to every of them. [ <= weel this is a really, really
> >| drafty proposal ]
> >
> >this is burocracy.
> >it would limit us to fund projects only every couple of months. that
> >makes totally NO sense at all.
> >
> >|
> >| Because at the moment, proposal of emergency requests just fall in
our
> >| mail boxes and we can say 'YES' or 'NO' just according to a 10 lines
> >| proposal ...
> >|
> >| solidarity /// respect
> >|
> >| /// r e d . k i t t e n ///
> >|
> >|
> >|
> >| At 16:57 03-09-02 -0700, you wrote:
> >|
> >|> Bart and Tim I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. There is
a
> >|> month for this and as i said that wasn't a final proposal. I'd
really
> >|> appricate it if you sent me specific questions so i could answer
them
> >|> before people make their decisions. Nobody's saying this is a one
way
> >|> process. Honestly i'd like to not have to take any money from the
global
> >|> fund but this project also has a lot of potential.
> >|>
> >|> It's my understanding that the global finance process that was
agreeded
> >|> upon was more or less in place. We needed to now try a few projects
and
> >|> see how it worked. If there is a problem then we can adjust.
Honestly i
> >|> haven't read all the mail over imc-finance so i'm not 100% on this.
It
> >|> would be nice if we could get the imc-finance process clearly stated
and
> >|> on teh wiki, if it's not already.
> >|>
> >|> For what it's worth this is still and active discussion about how
this
> >|> will all work out and grow within the latin american indymedia
network.
> >|>
> >|> in solidarity,
> >|> evan
> >|>
> >|> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, red kitten wrote:
> >|>
> >|> > I think that's really few informations for such a big project and
> >|> such an
> >|> > amount of money.
> >|> > I'm a bit annoyed that we always ask us to say 'yes' or 'no' to a
fund
> >|> > request meanwhile we almost don't knwo anything about the projects
> >|> and the
> >|> > global situation of the finance and the needs.
> >|> > This isn't really a serious way to work, i think. This looks
perfectly
> >|> > democratic, but actually this isn't at all: it's iresponsible.
> >|> > We cannot make serious and aware decision this way, sorry.
> >|> > For the rest, this project sounds really nice, that's not the
point!
> >|> =^_^=
> >|> >
> >|> > solidarity /// love 2 all [ ... and kill the bastards ]
> >|> >
> >|> > /// r e d . k i t t en /// belgium indymedia
> >|> >
> >|> > ===========================================
> >|> >
> >|> >
> >|> > At 08:42 03-09-02 +0200, Bart wrote:
> >|> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >|> > >Hash: SHA1
> >|> > >
> >|> > >gaat iedereen hiermee akkoord ?
> >|> > >Bart
> >|> > >
> >|> > >- -------- Oorspronkelijke bericht --------
> >|> > >Onderwerp: [Imc-finance] Request $2500 For Shipping Computers to
> >|> Ecuador IMC
> >|> > >Datum: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:04:20 -0700 (PDT)
> >|> > >Van: evan@protest.net
> >|> > >Antwoord-naar: evan@protest.net
> >|> > >Aan: imc-finance@indymedia.org
> >|> > >CC: sending_boxes@lists.riseup.net
> >|> > >
> >|> > >I'm not sure exactly what form a full request should be in but
> >|> this is a
> >|> > >pre notice that it'll be coming down the pike in the next week or
two.
> >|> > >This is a project that a number of individuals from imc-tech,
> >|> indymedia
> >|> > >portland, san francisco, ecuador and the whole Latin Ameircan imc
> >|> network
> >|> > >have been working on. At their meeting on the 1st of September
the
> >|> latin
> >|> > >american imc's came to agreement to back this project and request
that
> >|> > >some money from the imc global fund be used for this project.
After
> >|> > >shipping computers to ecuador both the Brasil and Argentina imc's
> >|> are very
> >|> > >interested in working on making this an ongoing project. This
> >|> project has
> >|> > >already attracted supportive foundation interest and we hope that
> >|> it'll be
> >|> > >funded in the future without drawing on existing indymedia global
> >|> funds.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >Summary: Project to ship a container of approx. 250 to 400
refurbished
> >|> > >~ computers to Ecuador to extend the technical capacity
of
> >|> > >~ civil society and the anti-globalization movement
> >|> > >~ leading up to the anti-FTAA protests in early November.
> >|> > >~ If successful this will be the first stage in an
ongoing
> >|> > >~ project to send large numbers of computers to social
> >|> > >~ movements in the global south through indymedia.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >Date/Timeline:
> >|> > >~ 1 Month. We will be using the initial $2000 to $2500 we
have
> >|> > > raised from friends of the portland imc for shipping
> >|> costs. This
> >|> > > $2500 will be needed for fees, shipping, and storrage
within
> >|> > > ecuador, training materials, and other unexpected
expenses.
> >|> > > We expect to ship the container mid to late September
with
> >|> the
> >|> > > hope that we will be able to begin distributing by early
> >|> > > November.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >
> >|> > >Proposal Description:
> >|> > >
> >|> > >The single most consistent request from indymedia activists in
the
> >|> global
> >|> > >south is for computers and media making equipment. Even though
the
> >|> > >internet and computers are reshaping the world they are only
doing
> >|> it for
> >|> > >those who have access to the equipment. For the past two and a
half
> >|> years
> >|> > >indymedia has prided itself as a network which takes the tools of
> >|> media
> >|> > >and communications and puts them in the hands of people working
for
> >|> social
> >|> > >change. For this mission to become a reality we need equipment.
> >|> Computers
> >|> > >play a central role in all media making and communication today.
At
> >|> the
> >|> > >same time thousands good working computers are thrown out because
> >|> they are
> >|> > >a year or two out of date. This project thinks big and is
> >|> attempting to
> >|> > >not only solve the needs of a single organization but to build
> >|> capacity
> >|> > >across the breadth of the movement for a just society.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >By working with the Alameda County Computer Recycling Center
> >|> (accrc.org)
> >|> > >in Oakland and Free Geek in Portland we have found a free source
of
> >|> > >recycled computers. ACCRC and Free Geek take used computers from
US
> >|> > >companies and refurbishes them for non-profits, the poor, and
> >|> educational
> >|> > >institutions around the world. We are organizing our own labor to
> >|> test the
> >|> > >incoming boxes and put together the parts into useable systems
with a
> >|> > >Spanish language version of Linux installed. From there the ACCRC
will
> >|> > >load them up on to pallets and in to the container for shipping.
> >|> Once the
> >|> > >container arrives our Ecuadorian partner organizations will work
> >|> with a
> >|> > >customs import agent to get the boxes through customs and hauled
up to
> >|> > >Quito. In Quito we will be able to supply computers to all the
groups
> >|> > >coming in to town for the convergence against the FTAA at the
> >|> beginning of
> >|> > >November. To avoid the mistakes of past projects shipping
computers
> >|> we are
> >|> > >working on putting together short workshops introducing the
people and
> >|> > >organizations receiving computers on basic use.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >We currently are doing outreach to groups in Ecuador and
arranging
> >|> > >logistics. At the moment we working with Indymedia Ecuador,
> >|> CONFEUNASSC
> >|> > >(The National Ecuadorian Campesino Organization), and Action
> >|> Ecologica.
> >|> > >These and other groups have been involved in coordinating the
> >|> Ecuadorian
> >|> > >Social Forum and have been central in the struggle to save the
> >|> rainforest,
> >|> > >against dolarization, and recently the privatization of
> >|> electricity. While
> >|> > >most groups in Ecuador have a couple computers there is a
> >|> compelling need
> >|> > >for more.
> >|> > >
> >|> > >Provisional Budget:
> >|> > >
> >|> > >Computers, monitors, printers, etc... $0 (paper value
> >|> $100,000)
> >|> > >Shipping Container from Oakland to Guayaquil $2500 for 20 foot
> >|> container
> >|> > >~ $3200 for 40 foot
> >|> container
> >|> > >Shipping in Ecuador and Customs $2000 (guess)
> >|> > >Trainings and training material $500
> >|> > >
> >|> > >~ Raised Already: $2500
> >|> > >~ Total cost: $5000 to $5700
> >|> > >
> >|> > >~ Needed: $2500
> >|> > >
> >|> > >For more information and to talk to us about this project please
email
> >|> > >evan@indymedia.org or call 707-822-1860.
> >
> >
> >- --
> >"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
> >I'm not sure about the former." (Einstein)
> >
> >bart at indymedia.org | http://indymedia.be
> >bart at thepits.be | http://thepits.be
> >icq: 48682266
> >
> >gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-keys be196251
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> >Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> >iD8DBQE9dcvWPhTKOkQE2V0RAp8WAJ90mjT2hBfPYlyL4TMJ9vTkwBCBzACghU41
> >dGqEZyDgzjiNLgYqRyhrNyc=
> >=L4BW
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imc-finance mailing list
> Imc-finance@lists.indymedia.org
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-finance
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C25403.4CCC7CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, as evan said, that e-mail was not =
a proper=20
request, it was more a draft, a pre notice of what this project is/will=20
be about. It's clear that he is only trying to help the latin =
american=20
indymedia network and I thank him for that. We could definitely find a =
good use=20
for computers around here (most of the collectives on Bolivia, for =
example, do=20
not participate on the latin american discussions because they do not =
have=20
computers or regular access to the internet).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even then, I agree with 'red kitten' =
(sorry, I=20
don't know your name) that we need more info than we have right now to =
make a=20
choice on donating the $2500 or not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyway, I just wanted to ask you all to =
be patient=20
and to not stress about the details at this time. We are discussing this =
project=20
on the IMC-latina list and I'm sure we will have a more clear proposal =
to make=20
in no time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers for now,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luis,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CMI Belo Horizonte, =
Brasil.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "red kitten" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:redkitten@indymedia.be"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>redkitten@indymedia.be</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: "Bart" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:bart@indymedia.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bart@indymedia.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cc: <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:evan@protest.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>evan@protest.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>; =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:imc-finance@indymedia.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>imc-finance@indymedia.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>;=20
<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:imc-finance-belgium@indymedia.org"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>imc-finance-belgium@indymedia.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 =
6:50=20
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: [Imc-finance] Request $2500 =
For Shipping=20
Computers to Ecuador IMC + lists process, etc ...</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> Sorry, let's be serious one minute:<BR>> a mail have =
been sent to=20
the BELGIUM FINANCE LIST asking to approve or not <BR>> a request for =
fund=20
for $2,500 [ <=3D that's something, i think! ]<BR>> <BR>> * =
PROJECT=20
*<BR>> <BR>> The project was really draftly described. We have no =
idea of=20
what can be <BR>> bought for that amount. We don't know where it's =
gonna go,=20
who for, who <BR>> will take care of it, etc ... I cannot judge if =
it's a=20
good idea or not. So <BR>> if we're asked to decide about something =
we don't=20
know more than this, <BR>> that's no decision, that's no =
democracy<BR>>=20
<BR>> * OVERVIEW OF FINANCE *<BR>> <BR>> Not everybody have =
time to=20
follow the finance list. If we're asked to take <BR>> a decision =
concerning=20
an amount of money, we have to know if it's a big <BR>> part of the =
global=20
amount. take $2,500 out of 5,000$ is another decision <BR>> than to =
take it=20
out of $60,000. It's also important to know how we got the <BR>> =
money (no=20
detail): the one-shot gift of Chubawamba won't happen every <BR>> =
second day.=20
But we can also see that we got $ XXX every year by paypal and <BR>>=20
donation, that it might come agin next year, approximatively for the =
same=20
<BR>> amount. I guess, and i hope, theer's a document showing an =
overview of=20
the <BR>> finance for last years somewher, please tell me where. If =
there's=20
not such <BR>> a thing, then there's a big problem!<BR>> <BR>> =
*=20
PROJECT DECISION *<BR>> <BR>> I think we have to considere this =
seriously.=20
To make up a procedure forsuch <BR>> project will also make it easyer =
for=20
people and IMCs to make request. If we <BR>> know how much there is, =
what=20
other projects are on the way, how to make a <BR>> clear request, =
what have=20
to be specified in it, what's possible and what's <BR>> not, etc, if =
we know=20
all that it's much more easyer to make a request and <BR>> also much =
more=20
easyer to make decision on this request!<BR>> <BR>> * BUROCRACY =
vs.=20
LISTOCRACY *<BR>> <BR>> Once again: this is really not easy and =
not clear=20
for people who aren't <BR>> involved in those lists, it means: to the =
huge=20
majority of people involved <BR>> in Indymedia projects. Democracy =
isn't just=20
saying, the info is there <BR>> somewhere, you've to find it. =
Democracy is=20
summarizing, showing the way, <BR>> making it easyer to people to be =
involved=20
and to participate. If i wanted <BR>> to be democratic, i would come =
with=20
this proposal to the next IMC Belgium <BR>> meeting and ask people =
what they=20
think about it, or at least send this <BR>> proposal on the main =
lists ...=20
but i don't even have infos enough, i <BR>> wouldn't be able to =
answer a=20
single question about it. Burocracy is what's <BR>> happening now: =
member of=20
the finance list are asked to say 'YES' or 'NO' to <BR>> something =
they don't=20
know about ... Let's makes thing more clear, or decide <BR>> that, =
finally, a=20
bunch of people can decide about it ... [ but then don't <BR>> dare =
to talk=20
about democracy vs. burocracy anymore, please! ]<BR>> <BR>> =
+++<BR>>=20
Bart: it's really not funny to read your unfriendly mail all the time, =
<BR>>=20
please make an effort, and write down arguments, not just 'that's =
stupid',=20
<BR>> 'we don't need that'. If you think we have to agree with this =
financial=20
<BR>> request, tell us why you think it's a good idea, and what's the =
situtaion <BR>> of the global finance, etc . Thank you. [ may i =
remind you=20
that you took as <BR>> a task, long time ago, to be the global =
liaison person=20
for Belgium <BR>> Indymedia? The idea was that you follow up global=20
discussions, participate <BR>> AND communicate it to the Belgium IMC=20
collective to advocate ITS point of <BR>> view in the network ... =
]<BR>>=20
<BR>> cheerz /// solidarity<BR>> <BR>> /// r e d . k i t t e n=20
///<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> At 11:01 04-09-02 +0200, Bart=20
wrote:<BR>> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>> >Hash:=20
SHA1<BR>> ><BR>> >red kitten heeft geschreven:<BR>> >| =
Hi Evan=20
(thanx for that quick answer) hi all<BR>> >|<BR>> >| I don't =
really=20
have specific questions, but first of all i think the<BR>> >| =
people=20
proposing this project [ a container of computers to South<BR>> >| =
America=20
] should explain it from A till Z. What exactly will be bought,<BR>> =
>|=20
who for, who is it gonna be given to, what's planned for fixing =
those<BR>>=20
>| machines afterwards, etc, etc ...<BR>> ><BR>> >i think =
evan't=20
mail was clear enough.<BR>> ><BR>> >|<BR>> >| Ths =
other point=20
is the amount of money that can be given to one specific<BR>> >| =
project.=20
To be able to be aware of the finance situation we should have<BR>> =
>|=20
clear and readable figures including:<BR>> >| - how much money we=20
have<BR>> ><BR>> >sascha sends this regularly out. to this =
list.=20
it's easy to keep track.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >| - when =
+ how=20
did it comes [for every year, what's from pay-pal, what<BR>> >| =
from one=20
shot gift, etc ... ]<BR>> ><BR>> >why ? why should we need =
that=20
?<BR>> ><BR>> >| - what are the regular cost [ servers, =
broadband,=20
etc ]<BR>> ><BR>> >that's not for this account. there's a =
global=20
tech account as well. has<BR>> >nothing to do with =
imc-finance.<BR>>=20
><BR>> >| - what are the other projects proposed at the =
moment<BR>>=20
><BR>> >none.<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >|<BR>> =
>| I=20
think we should proceed [ more or less ] like this: every 6 or 4<BR>> =
>|=20
months gather the proposals, which should be made the same way [ fill =
in<BR>>=20
>| form ] and that we had time to get information, discussion about =
it,=20
etc<BR>> >| ... Then decide what project are gonna be done for the =
next=20
months, and<BR>> >| how much money to every of them. [ <=3D =
weel this is=20
a really, really<BR>> >| drafty proposal ]<BR>> ><BR>> =
>this=20
is burocracy.<BR>> >it would limit us to fund projects only every =
couple=20
of months. that<BR>> >makes totally NO sense at all.<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
>|<BR>> >| Because at the moment, proposal of emergency =
requests just=20
fall in our<BR>> >| mail boxes and we can say 'YES' or 'NO' just =
according=20
to a 10 lines<BR>> >| proposal ...<BR>> >|<BR>> >| =
solidarity=20
/// respect<BR>> >|<BR>> >| /// r e d . k i t t e n =
///<BR>>=20
>|<BR>> >|<BR>> >|<BR>> >| At 16:57 03-09-02 -0700, =
you=20
wrote:<BR>> >|<BR>> >|> Bart and Tim I'd be happy to =
answer any=20
questions you have. There is a<BR>> >|> month for this and as i =
said=20
that wasn't a final proposal. I'd really<BR>> >|> appricate it =
if you=20
sent me specific questions so i could answer them<BR>> >|> =
before=20
people make their decisions. Nobody's saying this is a one way<BR>> =
>|>=20
process. Honestly i'd like to not have to take any money from the =
global<BR>>=20
>|> fund but this project also has a lot of potential.<BR>>=20
>|><BR>> >|> It's my understanding that the global =
finance=20
process that was agreeded<BR>> >|> upon was more or less in =
place. We=20
needed to now try a few projects and<BR>> >|> see how it =
worked. If=20
there is a problem then we can adjust. Honestly i<BR>> >|> =
haven't read=20
all the mail over imc-finance so i'm not 100% on this. It<BR>> =
>|>=20
would be nice if we could get the imc-finance process clearly stated =
and<BR>>=20
>|> on teh wiki, if it's not already.<BR>> >|><BR>> =
>|>=20
For what it's worth this is still and active discussion about how =
this<BR>>=20
>|> will all work out and grow within the latin american indymedia =
network.<BR>> >|><BR>> >|> in solidarity,<BR>> =
>|>=20
evan<BR>> >|><BR>> >|> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, red kitten=20
wrote:<BR>> >|><BR>> >|> > I think that's really =
few=20
informations for such a big project and<BR>> >|> such =
an<BR>>=20
>|> > amount of money.<BR>> >|> > I'm a bit annoyed =
that we=20
always ask us to say 'yes' or 'no' to a fund<BR>> >|> > =
request=20
meanwhile we almost don't knwo anything about the projects<BR>> =
>|> and=20
the<BR>> >|> > global situation of the finance and the=20
needs.<BR>> >|> > This isn't really a serious way to work, i =
think.=20
This looks perfectly<BR>> >|> > democratic, but actually =
this isn't=20
at all: it's iresponsible.<BR>> >|> > We cannot make serious =
and=20
aware decision this way, sorry.<BR>> >|> > For the rest, =
this=20
project sounds really nice, that's not the point!<BR>> >|>=20
=3D^_^=3D<BR>> >|> ><BR>> >|> > solidarity /// =
love 2 all [=20
... and kill the bastards ]<BR>> >|> ><BR>> >|> =
> /// r=20
e d . k i t t en /// belgium indymedia<BR>> >|> ><BR>> =
>|>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> >|> =
><BR>>=20
>|> ><BR>> >|> > At 08:42 03-09-02 +0200, Bart=20
wrote:<BR>> >|> > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED =
MESSAGE-----<BR>>=20
>|> > >Hash: SHA1<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> =
>|> >=20
>gaat iedereen hiermee akkoord ?<BR>> >|> > =
>Bart<BR>>=20
>|> > ><BR>> >|> > >- -------- =
Oorspronkelijke=20
bericht --------<BR>> >|> > >Onderwerp: [Imc-finance] =
Request=20
$2500 For Shipping Computers to<BR>> >|> Ecuador IMC<BR>> =
>|>=20
> >Datum: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:04:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>> >|> =
>=20
>Van: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:evan@protest.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>evan@protest.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>|>=20
> >Antwoord-naar: </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:evan@protest.net"><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2>evan@protest.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
>|> > >Aan: </FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:imc-finance@indymedia.org"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>imc-finance@indymedia.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> >|> > >CC: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:sending_boxes@lists.riseup.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>sending_boxes@lists.riseup.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
>|> > ><BR>> >|> > >I'm not sure exactly what =
form a=20
full request should be in but<BR>> >|> this is a<BR>>=20
>|> > >pre notice that it'll be coming down the pike in the =
next=20
week or two.<BR>> >|> > >This is a project that a number =
of=20
individuals from imc-tech,<BR>> >|> indymedia<BR>> >|> =
>=20
>portland, san francisco, ecuador and the whole Latin Ameircan =
imc<BR>>=20
>|> network<BR>> >|> > >have been working on. At =
their=20
meeting on the 1st of September the<BR>> >|> latin<BR>> =
>|>=20
> >american imc's came to agreement to back this project and =
request=20
that<BR>> >|> > >some money from the imc global fund be =
used for=20
this project. After<BR>> >|> > >shipping computers to =
ecuador=20
both the Brasil and Argentina imc's<BR>> >|> are very<BR>> =
>|>=20
> >interested in working on making this an ongoing project. =
This<BR>>=20
>|> project has<BR>> >|> > >already attracted =
supportive=20
foundation interest and we hope that<BR>> >|> it'll be<BR>>=20
>|> > >funded in the future without drawing on existing =
indymedia=20
global<BR>> >|> funds.<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> =
>|>=20
> >Summary: Project to ship a container of approx. 250 to 400=20
refurbished<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ computers to =
Ecuador to=20
extend the technical capacity of<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ civil society and =
the=20
anti-globalization movement<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ leading up to the=20
anti-FTAA protests in early November.<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ If successful this =
will be=20
the first stage in an ongoing<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ project to send =
large=20
numbers of computers to social<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ movements in the =
global=20
south through indymedia.<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> =
>=20
>Date/Timeline:<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ 1 Month. We will =
be using=20
the initial $2000 to $2500 we have<BR>> >|> >=20
> raised from friends =
of the=20
portland imc for shipping<BR>> >|> costs. This<BR>> =
>|> >=20
> $2500 will be =
needed for=20
fees, shipping, and storrage within<BR>> >|> >=20
> ecuador, training=20
materials, and other unexpected expenses.<BR>> >|> >=20
> We expect to ship =
the=20
container mid to late September with<BR>> >|> the<BR>> =
>|>=20
> > hope that we =
will be=20
able to begin distributing by early<BR>> >|> >=20
> November.<BR>> =
>|>=20
> ><BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> > =
>Proposal=20
Description:<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> > >The =
single=20
most consistent request from indymedia activists in the<BR>> =
>|>=20
global<BR>> >|> > >south is for computers and media =
making=20
equipment. Even though the<BR>> >|> > >internet and =
computers are=20
reshaping the world they are only doing<BR>> >|> it for<BR>> =
>|> > >those who have access to the equipment. For the past =
two and=20
a half<BR>> >|> years<BR>> >|> > >indymedia has =
prided=20
itself as a network which takes the tools of<BR>> >|> =
media<BR>>=20
>|> > >and communications and puts them in the hands of =
people=20
working for<BR>> >|> social<BR>> >|> > >change. =
For this=20
mission to become a reality we need equipment.<BR>> >|>=20
Computers<BR>> >|> > >play a central role in all media =
making and=20
communication today. At<BR>> >|> the<BR>> >|> > =
>same=20
time thousands good working computers are thrown out because<BR>> =
>|>=20
they are<BR>> >|> > >a year or two out of date. This =
project=20
thinks big and is<BR>> >|> attempting to<BR>> >|> > =
>not=20
only solve the needs of a single organization but to build<BR>> =
>|>=20
capacity<BR>> >|> > >across the breadth of the movement =
for a=20
just society.<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> > >By =
working=20
with the Alameda County Computer Recycling Center<BR>> >|>=20
(accrc.org)<BR>> >|> > >in Oakland and Free Geek in =
Portland we=20
have found a free source of<BR>> >|> > >recycled =
computers. ACCRC=20
and Free Geek take used computers from US<BR>> >|> > =
>companies=20
and refurbishes them for non-profits, the poor, and<BR>> >|>=20
educational<BR>> >|> > >institutions around the world. We =
are=20
organizing our own labor to<BR>> >|> test the<BR>> >|> =
>=20
>incoming boxes and put together the parts into useable systems with=20
a<BR>> >|> > >Spanish language version of Linux =
installed. From=20
there the ACCRC will<BR>> >|> > >load them up on to =
pallets and=20
in to the container for shipping.<BR>> >|> Once the<BR>> =
>|>=20
> >container arrives our Ecuadorian partner organizations will=20
work<BR>> >|> with a<BR>> >|> > >customs import =
agent to=20
get the boxes through customs and hauled up to<BR>> >|> > =
>Quito.=20
In Quito we will be able to supply computers to all the groups<BR>> =
>|>=20
> >coming in to town for the convergence against the FTAA at =
the<BR>>=20
>|> beginning of<BR>> >|> > >November. To avoid the =
mistakes of past projects shipping computers<BR>> >|> we =
are<BR>>=20
>|> > >working on putting together short workshops =
introducing the=20
people and<BR>> >|> > >organizations receiving computers =
on basic=20
use.<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> > >We currently =
are=20
doing outreach to groups in Ecuador and arranging<BR>> >|> > =
>logistics. At the moment we working with Indymedia Ecuador,<BR>>=20
>|> CONFEUNASSC<BR>> >|> > >(The National =
Ecuadorian=20
Campesino Organization), and Action<BR>> >|> Ecologica.<BR>> =
>|> > >These and other groups have been involved in =
coordinating=20
the<BR>> >|> Ecuadorian<BR>> >|> > >Social Forum =
and=20
have been central in the struggle to save the<BR>> >|>=20
rainforest,<BR>> >|> > >against dolarization, and =
recently the=20
privatization of<BR>> >|> electricity. While<BR>> >|> =
>=20
>most groups in Ecuador have a couple computers there is a<BR>> =
>|>=20
compelling need<BR>> >|> > >for more.<BR>> >|> =
>=20
><BR>> >|> > >Provisional Budget:<BR>> >|> =
>=20
><BR>> >|> > >Computers, monitors, printers,=20
etc... $0 (paper =
value<BR>>=20
>|> $100,000)<BR>> >|> > >Shipping Container from =
Oakland=20
to Guayaquil $2500 for 20 foot<BR>> >|> container<BR>> =
>|> >=20
>~ &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
$3200 for 40 foot<BR>> >|> container<BR>> >|> >=20
>Shipping in Ecuador and=20
Customs =
=20
$2000 (guess)<BR>> >|> > >Trainings and training=20
material  =
; =20
$500<BR>> >|> > ><BR>> >|> >=20
>~ &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; =20
Raised Already: $2500<BR>> >|> >=20
>~ &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; =20
Total cost: $5000 to $5700<BR>> =
>|> >=20
><BR>> >|> >=20
>~ &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; =20
Needed: =
$2500<BR>>=20
>|> > ><BR>> >|> > >For more information and =
to talk=20
to us about this project please email<BR>> >|> >=20
>evan@indymedia.org or call 707-822-1860.<BR>> ><BR>> =
><BR>>=20
>- --<BR>> >"Only two things are infinite, the universe =
and human=20
stupidity, and<BR>> >I'm not sure about the former." =
(Einstein)<BR>>=20
><BR>> >bart at indymedia.org =20
| </FONT><A =
href=3D"http://indymedia.be"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>http://indymedia.be</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
>bart at thepits.be =20
| </FONT><A =
href=3D"http://thepits.be"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>http://thepits.be</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
>icq: 48682266<BR>> ><BR>> >gpg --keyserver =
keys.indymedia.org=20
--recv-keys be196251<BR>> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>>=20
>Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)<BR>> >Comment: Using GnuPG =
with=20
Debian - </FONT><A href=3D"http://enigmail.mozdev.org"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://enigmail.mozdev.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
><BR>>=20
>iD8DBQE9dcvWPhTKOkQE2V0RAp8WAJ90mjT2hBfPYlyL4TMJ9vTkwBCBzACghU41<BR>&=
gt;=20
>dGqEZyDgzjiNLgYqRyhrNyc=3D<BR>> >=3DL4BW<BR>> >-----END =
PGP=20
SIGNATURE-----<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> Imc-finance =
mailing=20
list<BR>> </FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:Imc-finance@lists.indymedia.org"><FONT=20
face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Imc-finance@lists.indymedia.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-finance"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-finance</FONT></=
A></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C25403.4CCC7CE0--
_______________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Encontros
O lugar certo para encontrar a sua alma gêmea.
http://br.encontros.yahoo.com/