[Imc-finance] IMC West-Vlaanderen on Imc-Finance and TMF - english.

[blicero]

On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 08:37:20AM -0800, evan@protest.net wrote:
> let me first aplogise for replying to this email. I'm not a liason and for
> that reason have kept quite at many times when i would have liked to
> contribute.
> 

I apologize as well 
i will try to bring the issue in italy imc as soon as possible to
discuss

a premise: it seems to me we are a bit playing with words some time, but
let's go for it so we try to be clear once and for all

> > - - Imc-finance can only accept money 'no strings attached'

to means it means NO STRINGS ATTACHED:
no condition on how the money will be spent 
this odes not imply single project funding themselves 
as for the fact that we are unfair to who gives the money i simply don't
care. we have to find the way we want things to happen
then worry about how other will receive the statement

> 
> > - -  TMF, and other funds are allowed to do fundraising but without
> > mentioning indymedia. If they get money, they can donate it to indymedia
> >  'no strings attached'
> 
> Again this is a major change to the way fundraising has been done. To
> force all fundraising through imc-finance, refuse to allow project
> fundraising, and to refuse to allow people to mention the name indymedia
> effectivly says money can not be raised.
> 

a. i think we all refer to the use of indymedia network as a whole
and we already agreed after FF that fundrasising for network wide
project should pass through this list

b. as any rule in a fluid environment they are subject to a degree of
exception, especially if the rules are based on trust bonds (the problem
that these trust bonds have been eroded is another problem). To me imc
putting the name to get money for hospital expenses and sending back the
body of a dead activist is plainly an example everyone would have agreed
obviously communicating it to the list even later on would have been
fair. but i can understand it was a sensible subject
so let's not play the bureaucrat network: we know our rules are not
meant as a strict bureaucracy but as a counterbalance to the fluid side
of the network

c. single project can follow talkign of their project and how they
interact with indymedia local nodes; it's different if someone (even
very close friends of us) raise money for a network wide project without
talking with this list
I really don't unuderstand the problem of talking with the list
previously 

> But let's make them realistic standards which are in line with the
> practicies which have been incredibly sucessful at growing and sustaining
> the indymedia over the past three years.
> 

no evan
let's make them realistic standard which are in line with which most
local imc in the network think it's the way to go
the fact that until now something worked in one way DOES NOT mean it
should continue or not be changed if the discussion we will (hopefully)
make will lead us to different conclusions


> > - - Imc Finance can only accept money where we know and accept where it
> > comes from
> 
> If you are saying that only imc-finance can accept money then by this
> statement you are in effect calling for a complete restructuring of
> indymedia.
> 

no
it's saying imc finance must have a saying in all network-wide project
a thing already coming out of the FF thing
the fact that this mandate was disregarded is part of the trouble we are
going through


> If you are just saying that imc finance can no longer accept anonymous
> donations then please state it clearly so we can understand. On the other
> hand if you are just saying we accept money from who we choose to accept
> money from then it is hardly worth mentioning.
> 

i agree
for example i am totally in favour of anonymous donation
anonymous donation cannot be conditioning apart from the issue of
getting you dependent on donor money (not a minor issue, but a issue we
never even discussed about)

> I have come to realize that there exists a huge gap between the way most
> indymedia activists think we deal with money and with the historical
> reality of how we actually HAVE dealt with money. It is a shame. Until we
> can address the issue of people knowing the history and practices then
> attempts at reform will either be ignored or very distruptive to the life
> of the thing we call indymedia..
> 

i think we have to discuss of the vision we have and what we would like
then confront it with reality
history, especially in the case we have here (where history has been in
the making and never based on shared ideas but on very appreciated
individuals efforts), can be misleading 
i think we have to think from scratch otherwise werisk getting involved
in typical "you did this, i did that" dynamics

i will try to have italy imc people discuss the thing and elaborate a
concrete proposal and get back here as a liason 

sorry for the legth of the mail


-- 
ciao
blicero
gpg --keyserver autistici.org --recv-key CDAA2B16
gpg/pgp keys lynx -dump http://www.autistici.org/loa/blicero/keys.asc | gpg --import -

-- difendi lo stile di vita del DODO --