[Imc-finance] Re: letter confirming " some LACK OF TRANSPARENCY??"

[chema at no-log.org]

Hello y'all,

I think I spoke too rashly in my mail to glenda. If anyone was insulted, I
humbly apologize. I am aware that there has been a substantial amount of
work done on this project and it is great to see that, even if I still
have some apprehension to such projects as a whole. I know you all
probably think that it is a good thing, but we are all entitled to our
opinion and my experience has shown me that some priorities must be made
and sometimes good ideas like yours are just too "expensive"
resource-wise.

Sphinx, I apologize to you personally. I replied the way I did to glenda
because of the mail she sent me personally. It seemed very urgent and gave
me the feeling that she was just informing me (as part of the Indymedia
Switzerland collective) of something that had been decided by others.

>From what I gather a lot of the organizing has been done here in
Switzerland. You have to admit from my viewpoint it seems strange that
considering that we are not more than 3-4 hours by train you all just
contacted the closest Indymedia collective just now. Perhaps attempts were
made before, but I am not aware of them. That is the transparency I was
referring to. There are half a dozen projects being discussed at all times
on IRC and on the wiki pages. I cannot be aware of all the details of all
of them nor do I want to be. I became concerned with this project when it
came across my inbox.

I do think you shouldn't judge people too quickly though Sphinx. I might
not know what it is to be a black man, but I do know what it is to be dark
brown person. I have also fought a long time against my nation's
government and I also have the scars to prove it. I undertand this
question of integrity. I did not question your integrity since I did not
even know you or was aware you did the organizing. I just felt that
someone was looking for a rubber stamp. I can't give a rubber stamp
because I do not have that authority.

As to Glenda's question, my name is Chema Hernandez. I am from the Nahua
and Purepecha nations of central Mexico. I currently reside in French
Switzerland and I am part of the Swiss French Indymedia Collective. I have
worked with both Sasha and Sheri, they both know me.

I will not lie to you. I think you will have to work hard to get the
funding passed. We in Central and South America have always had a desire
to have such a regional meeting and have abandonned it due to funding
issues. Probably the situation is different in Africa, you all know
better, but I still believe that the money should be used for something
more permanent (not transporting people, from anywhere). I say this
knowing full well how expensive it is too travel.

Thank you for your replies,

Chema

> Hello Blue and others ! it will be a TRIBBLE disaster if as a results of
> my mail
> ACTIVISTS GET SCARED to air their views and ask qustions as well as raise
> concerns on this list or any other network list. Please understand me, I
> was
> upset by the accusation of "seeming lack of TRANSPARENCY by the
> ORGANISERS"; of
> which I've been the main one(organiser) working 24-7 to make this whole
> thing
> happen. And if anything, there is hardly any decision that has been taken
> without repeatly informing others and asking for opinions, in network
> mailing
> lists, and endless irc meetings whose logs are on the twiki. If Chema had
> stated
> what made him say the process was seemly untransparent then I could have
> tried
> to respond to the concerned in question. BUT to just through it like that
> (that
> there was seemly lack of TRANSPERENCY  on the part of the ORGANISERS)
> without
> substantiating was simply too much.
>
> I come from a society where, one does everything to avoid finding oneself
> in a
> situation where their intergrity could be questioned. I can hardly imagine
> anything that will hurt as the accusation of lacking transperency in an
> activity
> . It puts everything to question; your effords, your personality, your
> intentions and what have you?. I know some of this explanation may still
> just
> not make sense to some activists on this list. But if you were a black
> male who
> have fought for years against a perverse African regime you know has it's
> main
> support from known so-called democracies; If you have been dehumanised and
> striped of all what is known as humanrights by the laws in one of those
> so-called democracies that you know support the regime you have waisted
> your
> life fighting-just because you came there to take refuge. In a situation
> where
> every three police officers that see you on the street one will have to
> stop and
> control you just because you are black.
> Then, you are left just with one thing and that is your INTERGRITY. And
> you only
> get involved in projects or with people you know value that intergrity of
> yours.
>  Now if even in that milieu, that ones-last-thing-that-is-left-for-you
> comes
> under attack then you will explode. I bet you will.
>
> I'm so excited about indymedia becuase of the possibility to respect
> others as
> well as be respected by them; knowing you all mean to practice what you
> claim to
> stand for. Being sensitive enough but not formal.
>
>
>
> Quoting "blue.pi" <blue.pi at so36.net>:
>
>> Woh! I don't know if this is some internal dispute or soemthing. But I
>> sure
>>
>> don't feel comfortable to ask questions (may they be innocent or stupid)
>> on
>>
>> this list of this is what can happen.
>>
>> But there also seems to be some basic misunderstanding. Chema is nothing
>> of
>>
>> a director or that sort, nor is there any imc-finance administration.
>> (Actually Chema probably asked the questions he asked because he is not
>> so
>> super active globally and hasn't seen the other discussions - at least I
>> have never come across him)
>>
>> Some people here, like Sasha and Sheri, manage a whole lot of stuff and
>> therefore probably also know about many things that are going on. Others
>> are
>>
>> less active and simply a country liason because each IMC has to have
>> one.
>>
>> If we want people to be more active on this list (which has been
>> demanded
>> several times), we must allow those people who don't know about
>> everything
>> that's going on in the network to also ask questions and raise concerns.
>>
>> blue
>>
>> sphinx writes:
>>
>> > Dear Chema! Though you tried hard to mask this typical arrogant CEO
>> attitude
>> > that one meets every now and then in the network with words like
>> "seems"
>> > and "perhaps" the fact is, this recklessness and freehanded manner of
>> some
>> of
>> > you gives the desire to spew.
>> >
>> > Yes, it is true that Glenda though old in the field of struggle in
>> Africa
>> is
>> > new to indymedia and have hardly taken time to acquaint herself with
>> the
>> > internal structure and functioning of the network; which have ended
>> her the
>>
>> > reputation of addressing mails at times to the wrong list. Or simply
>> addressing
>> > herself to activist with content of discussions which leaves some
>> activist
>> at
>> > the lost of what she is talking about, as the activists at times are
>> not
>> > involved in the discussion being addresses to them by Glenda. Of
>> which, i
>> can
>> > understand your inability to figure-out the meaning of her mail. For
>> which
>>
>> > reason the administration of the imc-finance list did not approve of
>> her
>> mail
>> > through imc-finance lists. Yet my purpose of writing is not to discuss
>> the
>>
>> > Glenda style. it is rather to handle this insult-ive mail of yours.
>> >
>> > The discussion on the Dakar conference have been going on for than
>> 6months
>> now
>> > in indymedia mailing lists and the indymedia IRC server. This peroid
>> have
>>
>> > included endless hours of contributions and efforts by individuals. It
>> has
>> as
>> > well involved serious financial contributions by individuals in making
>> endless
>> > expensive phone calls to africa and elsewhere, making trips to attend
>> meetings
>> > with other groups who are involved in the tour to Africa in the frame
>> of
>> which
>> > the idea of the conference came up and many more sacrifices.
>> >
>> > And in all of that, the results of your "BUSY INVESTIGATION" is that
>> there
>> SEEM
>> > to be SOME LACK OF TRANSPERENCY in the in the organisation of this
>> conference.
>> > YET YOU COULD NOT list THESE seemly non transperency in Organising
>> this
>> > conference "which you are hoping will improve".
>> >
>> > Then you go :
>> > <I am not
>> > < at all sure that the priority is to have such a meeting given the
>> large
>> > < sums of money being talked about in IMC Finance.
>> >
>> > Did you read the mails sent to imc-finance??
>> > Or in the typical boss-style you did not see any reason to read the
>> content.
>> > You can criticise without reading, afterall if the worker thinks there
>> is
>>
>> > something to clarify they will have no other option but to come
>> begging for
>> an
>> > audience to the boss to clarify.
>> >
>> > I'M not going to take that arrogance from you or any body that is too
>> full
>>
>> > enough of him(most of the time)self to understand that we are in a
>> community to
>> > discuss with sincerity and commitment to move the overall project
>> forward.
>>
>> > You probably think you are part of the board of directors of indymedia
>> who
>> can
>> > throw away others(especially those from below) ideas away with a wave
>> of
>> the
>> > hand without the need for discussion.
>> >
>> > Alright boss, let me explain. The sum requested is mostly to cover
>> transport
>> > cost of the delegates from within africa coming to the conference. It
>> is
>> not to
>> > pay for the safari of those ORGANISING THE CONFERENCE.
>> >
>> >>From your busy investigation you found out that 6000Euros could be
>> used <to
>> buy
>> > computers and net connections? 6,000 euros in equipment
>> > < could kickstart a good amount of IMC in Africa.
>> >
>> > REALLLY??? If there was a bill for computers sent to imc-finance could
>> you
>> not
>> > have reminded us of the lack of bandwith and other similar
>> infrastructure
>> in
>> > Africa. Anyway after buying computers for 6000euros what next do we
>> do??
>> may be
>> > send  the computers to Africa and have the activists walk on foot to
>> some
>> place
>> > and pick them for use in KICKSTARTING A GOOD AMOUNT OF IMCS.
>> >
>> >
>> > To you last questions just another exposure of this managing director
>> attitude.
>> > There you go :
>> >> What University and Professor are you talking about? What sort of
>> >> fundraising are you doing? Could you send more detailed information
>> to
>> the
>> >> IMC Finance list?
>> >
>> > Ja ! Glenda should go the the African lists and the twiki pages where
>> all
>> the
>> > other irc meetings have been achived and prepare a report and SEND it
>> to
>> the
>> > director!
>> >
>> > Now with this kind of arrogance the network will be distroyed.
>> >
>> > Chema! next time when you are writing about an issue or may be if you
>> have
>>
>> > things you don't understand about an issue, like a comrade ASK
>> QUESTIONS
>> about
>> > the ISSUE and don't jump into any rach conclusions and much less
>> insults.
>> If
>> > you don't know to insinuate that those dealing with a particular
>> project
>> are
>> > not exactly transparent without any reason is very very destructive,
>> insult-
>> > ive  and annoying.
>> >
>> > Indymedia have a finance list and not a finance director to enchourage
>> frank
>> > and sincere exchange on financial issues and not to give a poduim for
>> those
>> who
>> > wish to play bosses. There is a BIG difference between raising
>> concerns and
>>
>> > worreis as have been going in imc-finance since there start of the
>> discussion
>> > on this issue and this provoking mail of yours below.
>> >
>> > Sphinx
>> > imc Africa working group
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting chema at no-log.org:
>> >
>> >> Dear Glenda,
>> >>
>> >> Sorry for the late reply. I got your mail two weeks ago, but I wasn't
>> >> quite sure what it was and I was quite busy to investigate. I am
>> still
>> not
>> >> sure what you refer to, since I couldn't open the attached files you
>> sent
>> >> in the second mail. Could you please resend them as pdf or txt?
>> >>
>> >> I am not sure what conference you are refering to. Perhaps it is the
>> IMC
>> >> Africa one? There seems to be some lack of transparency in the
>> >> organization of this conference, which will hopefully improve and I
>> am
>> not
>> >> at all sure that the priority is to have such a meeting given the
>> large
>> >> sums of money being talked about in IMC Finance. Perhaps that money
>> could
>> >> be used to buy computers and net connections? 6,000 euros in
>> equipment
>> >> could kickstart a good amount of IMC in Africa.
>> >>
>> >> What University and Professor are you talking about? What sort of
>> >> fundraising are you doing? Could you send more detailed information
>> to
>> the
>> >> IMC Finance list?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >>
>> >> Chema
>> >>
>> >> > PLEASE ENSURE THIS MAIL GETS TO SWITZERLAND INDYMEDIA-
>> >> > WE HAVE NO CONTACT AND NO REPLIES ON ANY OF OUR
>> >> > REQUESTS..................
>> >> >
>> >> > THIS IS TO CONFIRM THE CONFERENCE IS OFFICIAL-FIND
>> >> > LETTER FROM THE HOST FOR THE CONFERENCE.
>> >> >
>> >> > PLEASE, ANY QUESTIONS  MUST BE DIRECTED DIRECTLY TO
>> >> > THE SWISS TEAM VIA THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESSES AND
>> >> > NOT THE PROFESSOR AS HE HAS DELEGATED THE PARTNERSHIP:
>> >> >
>> >> > gloebell at bluewin.ch or
>> >> > glloebell at yahoo.com
>> >> > michaela.k at dplanet.ch
>> >> > mauranda at bluewin.ch
>> >> >
>> >> > A RECEIVING DEPOT FOR MATERIALS USED IN WORKSHOPS
>> >> > The university will receive but without any financial
>> >> > obligations the materials needed for the workshop-Hand
>> >> > book or pamphlet,please let us have the site page so
>> >> > we are able to have access to the content too.....
>> >> >
>> >> > Please also find our fund raising doc. in German that
>> >> > we are using........this has gone out for one week and
>> >> > we have yet to get responses. There are 3 of us
>> >> > carrying out this task. PLEASE LET ME STRESS THAT THIS
>> >> > IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR OTHER FUND RAISING BUT
>> >> > COMPLIMENTRY.......we need to take care of our
>> >> > Senegal/Swiss ticket of the person who is unable to
>> >> > finance his own ticket due to his status here in
>> >> > Switzerland.
>> >> > When we have a response we will let the results be
>> >> > made available to the group.
>> >> > We are doing "Professionally"  fund raising but very
>> >> > clear on ethics.
>> >> >
>> >> > We look forward to meeting all the faces of the names
>> >> > of the people who are working so hard to bring this
>> >> > idea to a reality.......
>> >> >
>> >> > NeBe
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > but for fate we could have been one another
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Imc-finance mailing list
>> > Imc-finance at lists.indymedia.org
>> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo
>> > Summary Page: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcFinance
>>
>>
>>
>> Get pgp key for bluepee3 at yahoo.com at www.keyserver.net
>>
>
>
> --
> but for fate we could have been one another
>
>