[Imc-finance] Re: (anna's mail)Re:"some LACK OFTRANSPARENCY??"

[blue.pi]

Hi Sphinx, hi all, 

the problems you raise and also the necessity you mention to have 
experienced volonteers from other IMCs help set up new ones, reminds me of 
the issue Petros brought up many times over the years. 

This may not be the right list for that, but I guess it has been discussed 
here before. I think it would be a good thing to have a more coordinated 
process for such help. This could a. prevent mistakes that happened in the 
past (as Petros has continously pointed out, unfortunately also when the 
people he accused were not acctually committing such mistakes), b. maybe 
encourage people who volonteer to help to be more committed and reliable in 
their help. c. making it easy to find new people to step in when people 
can't help anymore. 

I had been thinking of having a list for precisely this kind of help and on 
top collecting experiences on a seperate twicki. A while ago I acctually 
wrote up a proposal for that, but I have to look for it somewhere in my 
files at home. 

What do you think? HAs there ever been such an effort? 

blue 

sphinx writes: 

> 
> Hello ! I'll try to respond to the questions in Anna's mail. I never recieved
> this mail becuase I'm not on finance list and was not copied and only saw it by
> accident while looking at the archives of this list. 
> The imc-africa lists was formed to discuss: 
> 1- ways to improve and support the present african imcs to be effective and able
> to serve the communities as well as be real community projects as they are meant
> to be with the community participating.  
> 2-Help the development and growth of imcs in the whole of africa. 
> Thus it started with discussions as to what is the way forward with indymedia in
> africa and not; what we will do when we ask 15,000 Euros from imc-finance. 
>  It was clear : 
> a- there is a terrible lack of basic know-how. You will hardly believe that for
> a longtime (i think even now) the mailing list of  imcs-Nigeria was administered
> by a volunteer from another imc. That even with all the cry for lack of online
> connectivity that lots of ppl involved in imc-ambazonia still send their
> articles like emails to the lists or to individuals who have to go about the
> process of publishing  them on the site. 
> b-if anything the biggest trouble in trying to answer the question why indymedia
> growth in Africa has been the way it is has been, leads to the issues of lack of
> a culture of alternative media as seen elsewhere or better non-hieirarchy
> organising. The very left methodology of society analysis was never permit to
> grow in Africa with the exception of the South of Africa . Slave trade,
> colonialism, neocolonialism / clientalism. 
> Thus if everything is to be done to give a solid foundation on which imcs can
> develop and grow in Africa the departure point is sharing information and having
> a clear and deep understanding of formal consensus/ non-heirarchy consesus based
> structure. Thus the absolute need for face 2 face meetings at least as a start
> with a group that should bring these fundamentals of indymedia further on within
> the continent.  
>  
> There was the first attempt to have imc-Nigeria and imc-Ambazonia(then forming
> imc) activists meet Jay from imc-philly while he was in a trip to Africa,
> unfortunately last minute change of Jay's travel plans made the meeting to be
> called off.  
>  
> Other possibilities where being considered how to go further; regional meetings,
> indymedia africa tour or a mix of both. 
>  Then came the idea of a planned tour from Andalusia Spain in October 2003 to
> end in March 2004 in St.Louis Senegal. This was seen as a platform that could be
> used to run indymedia introduction workshops in all the places the tour will
> pass through. In the tour there was a festival planned at every stop with focus
> on a particular topic, like the migration festival in morocco and others.  The
> media festival was sheduled from the 1st to 14th March which with further
> discussions  was concluded on using the occasion for an alternative(indymedia)
> Conference. Most of the discussions went on in indymedia africa list, irc
> meetings and meetings with the other groups preparing the tour as well as the
> general list for the tour including other groups involved in tour. 
> At the conference we'll have activists from African imcs both forming and
> already approved plus some activist from the global north in a face to face
> meetings looking at ways to push the indymedia development and growth in africa. 
> We think this will help start imcs in africa as that has been the only way other
> imcs got started, someone with knowledge, experience and information about
> indymedia had to share that information  with people who will like to know.
> Which ever indymedia after seatle,  was started by someone or group which got
> information about indymedia either from being involved in an other imc, hearing
> from someone who has been involved or reading directly from the internet. But
> there must be that point were the information get's to us from somewhere or
> someone.      
> It is NOT that SO MUCH MONEY IS CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE TO BE SPENT ON EXACTLY
> THIS. It is that we are asking for the TRANSPORT (FARE) of the African activist
> to come to Senegal. It is sad that flights turned-out to be so expensive within
> the continent yet it is also not correct to sound as if the discussion went from
> the money to the purpose.  
>  
> How the delegates where chosen can be read in the proposal in the discussion
> about delegates to the conference: 
> which included: 
> -6places for activists from the global north to share their expereince and help
> with running workshops. 
> -Each of the approved imcs in africa had 3 places  
> -Each of the forming imcs had 2 places 
> -Activist from the countries where the tour passed, that after getting
> information wanted to participate have 2 spaces. 
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CallForListOfDELEGATESToAlternativeindymediaConferenceInDakarSenegal 
> 
>  
> You are right that all of these information you asked or most of it should be
> written somewhere. The trouble is it is not in the order you asked. 
> The bulk of it is here : 
>  
> http://imc-in-africa.so36.net 
> Twiki pages with all the logs of the network meetings. 
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/BtB 
> Archives of african list 
> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-africa/ 
>  
> Sphinx 
> 
> <hi, 
> 
> <(i'm not a liaison, never was to this list, but used to co-liaise for
> <imc germany and still follow things. usually silent) 
> 
> <i agree with blue pee here. and i'm sending this message because i think
> <in the current state indymedia as a whole is in, i think looking out for
> <a friendly, constructive atmosphere is vital. 
> 
> <a lot of the enthusiasm we saw in the first years has quieted down. a
> <lot of discussions aren't happening anymore, some important ones never
> <got started. i assume that with more routine and a lot of day-to-day
> <work everyone is busy with other things than the international network.
> <i'm very sorry about this. but that is a different topic...[everyone who
> <*is* interested in this - please get in touch] 
> 
> <in this case i think chemas way of putting his thoughts in email may
> <have not been perfect. making suggestions what else could be done with
> <the money without knowing much about the situation of those efrican
> <imc's (to be) that are planning the conference was obviously not
> <helpful. 
> 
> <but i've known chema for a while, seen him very engaged at times and i'm
> <very positive about his good intentions concerning indymedia. 
> 
> <i share some of the concerns raised. i haven't asked them because i just
> <didn't feel i was going to get very involved with the africa tour.
> <because i have other things to do, and also because i won't be able to
> <help much as far as money is concerned. i kind of silently admired those
> <who took up the task of organizing such big thing. 
> 
> <i think it'll stay a problem for a long time that mostly those indymedia
> <activists get to meet internationally who have the money to travel. i'm
> <talking about activists from the north/west, because i agree with the
> <idea that travel funds should go to activists from the south/east if
> <they're being distributed at all. also a different issue. 
> 
> <i agree with those who ask for more information. yes, i haven't read all
> <the documents. i've read some. i'm quite impressed. and at the same time
> <i think it would be nice if the people who ask for money could submit
> <all the information necessary to make such a decision. i don't think
> <it's necessary to write it all down again, but if it's there somewhere
> <it shouldn't be too much work to also write down the urls? 
> 
> <i'm not aware of who the people are who will receice this money. 
> <i'm not interested in personal information about them, but i'd like to
> <know why you (as a group preparing the conference and requesting the
> <money) decided to choose these people. 
> <i don't know exactly who and which groups are preparing the conference.
> <i don't know what exactly is going to happen at the conference. 
> <i don't know why you think this is going to help start new imc's in
> <africa. 
> <of course i can imagine, but at the same time i'd like to know why in
> <this case so much money is considered appropriate to be spent on exactly
> <this. in *your* view. i guess that with all the work that has been put
> <into preparations some or all of this has been written down.  
> 
> <in my view a request for money from whatever funds - local, global,
> <activist or not - should include the kind of information that allows the
> <people making the decisions to make a decisions. it shouldn't expect
> <them to go searching around for what they want to know. because they
> <might just be a volunteer just like everybody else. (<-- irony!). 
> 
> <sometimes it's not possible, because there is no time, no ressources, no
> <connection, no computer, etc. then this should be mentioned. and the
> <deadline for the decisions should maybe be postponed. it usually doesn't
> <work to demand of other people to do what you yourself don't have the
> <capacities for, if you want them to help you. not in a lose network like
> <indymedia. 
> 
> <i know this is a big expectation. often in indymedia it's not possible
> <to live up to our expectations. i don't know what's possible. i'm not a
> <boss either. but this is what i'd like to know if i was a liaison to
> <this list. 
> 
> <Anna
> <berlin 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Imc-finance mailing list
> Imc-finance at lists.indymedia.org
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo
> Summary Page: http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcFinance
 


Get pgp key for bluepee3 at yahoo.com at www.keyserver.net