[Imc-india] Madurai collective constructive suggestions
boud
boud1 at wp.pl
Wed Aug 27 16:18:27 PDT 2003
hi harsh, ganesh, rao, everyone,
###
SUMMARY of suggestions
(0) Please try to understand how Indymedia works, e.g.
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/MembershipCriteria
(1) Please try to get healthy communication going with the Madurai
collective (which does the features on http://india.indymedia.org)
(2) Please try to support IMC Mumbai, propose a public IMC Mumbai meeting
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-mumbai/
http://mumbai.indymedia.org
(3) Consider organising new local collectives in India
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
###
i'm a volunteer in Indymedia Poland, also in the new-imc working group,
and i helped IMC India a bit some time ago (i did actually live in India
for a couple of years). You can see the archives for 2001/2002 to see
my earlier comments:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-india/
(or if you're curious about what i do in Indymedia PL or the new-imc working
group, please just browse through the archives:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-pl/
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/ )
harsh wrote:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-india/2003-August/000973.html
hi harsh,
South Asia Citizens' Web is an excellent resource. You and whoever
else work on it are owed a huge amount of congratulations from everyone
interested in human rights in South Asia.
However, the Indymedia network is something different, and i think
there are some misunderstandings on how it works. If you really wish
to contribute constructive energy, i am sure this should be possible.
i don't understand everything in the Indymedia network, but i do (sort
of) understand something about the parts of it where i've volunteered.
Could i suggest for general reading you start off with
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
? This page is designed for organising any new local collective which wishes
to be officially associated with the network. If you want to understand
bits i know little about, you're just going to have to read for yourself,
maybe starting off at
http://docs.indymedia.org/
> To who ever is in-charge of IMC(s)
Everybody is in charge collectively - we're a non-hierarchical
network. Now that you seem to want to contribute, *you too* are in
charge. That's the whole idea of Indymedia. Everyone should be able to
participate. We don't want "superior" leaders, whether upper caste or
upper intellect or senior in experience or whatever, who decide for
"inferiors".
But you should read about consensus-type decision-making, please see
the links at:
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ConflictResolution
> http://india.indymedia.org/front.php3
>
> Damn it, no one still seems to have woken up after a nearly a year
> long takeover of India Indymedia by the fascists of the Hindu right.
Wrong. People are aware of it, but respect the right of the locals who
*live* in India (the Madurai collective) to decide autonomously what
their editorial policy is.
> Indymedia newswire in India is a mighty disaster, and will remain so
> if if it continues this ludicrous free speech open media type of
> model.
These are progressive activists living in Madurai that chose this model
of open publishing. The way Indymedia works is that you are going to
have to come to consensus about an editorial policy with the locals
if you wish to contribute constructively.
Participants in the global indymedia network feel uncomfortable about
deciding, on behalf of activists living in Madurai, that those activists
do not have the right to choose a 100% free speech editorial policy.
It's not that we don't care - it's that colonialism has gone on for
too long and we (the indymedia people mostly living in rich countries)
don't want to repeat the "civilising mission" of our hierarchical,
hypocritical leaders.
> This indie newswire run by India IMC should be shut down right away,
> It is contributing to hate speech daily. Who are these irresponsible
> folks in charge of India IMC ? What the bloody hell is the IMC doing?
> Why is no one taking notice ? Should someone take you guys to court
> before you sit up and take notice.
This is called making a threat. Indymedia does not work by making threats.
Is insulting people a constructive method for "progressive" activists?
> It is a shame that IMC which is peddled as space for use by
> progressive movements and campaigns has been highjacked like this and
> IMC cant or dosent seem to want to intervene to change this
> situation. Is no one answerable here ..... .
Everyone who is a real (pro-human rights) grassroots activist in India
or who has close contact with them and who also has good internet
access is answerable, IMHO.
> It is the responsibility of all secular activists working on India to
> actively and openly challenge IMC policy and its newswire in India.
The way to challenge this policy is to contact the present collective
who are living *in* India, not just working "on" India, and to consider
starting real, local Indymedia collectives based in India itself.
ganesh wrote:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-india/2003-August/000971.html
> The India Indymedia collective has done NOTHING to
> stop the hate and has ignored repeated requests to
> "hide" these calls for murder and rape against named
> individuals.
>
> I have repeatedly asked to help with the newswire
> editing to counter the hatred and threats of murder
> and rape, but no-one in India Indymedia has been
> willing to include me as a member of the collective.
>
> Is there any other conclusion I can draw but that
> India IMC does not care about or supports Hindutva
> extremism?
If you read through the archives (see above), you'll see that
IMC India initially started out before the "new-imc process"
(http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/NewImc) existed, and
that after that it was eventualled reaccepted because it
was clear that there's a local collective in Madurai who are
in (some) contact with expatriate supporters, that they
are a real collective interested in and capable of
publishing independent, pro-human rights news reports,
and that they support open publishing.
It's true that the Madurai collective does not often respond or
participate in discussions on the imc-india mailing list. Their
point of view (if i understand it correctly) is that internet
access is very expensive.
Here are the emails from the last (rare) contacts i've had with
the collective:
Amudhan <amudhanrp at rediffmail.com>
Amudhan <maduraicollective at rediffmail.com>
However, IMHO, there is no reason why expat supporters like you, harsh
and rahul should be excluded from supporting the collective, but you
need to understand that Indymedia is supposed to be about independent,
local media - it's not just a website. The priority is having local
collectives which organise open, public, face-to-face meetings.
The present IMC India site is in some sense only a stopgap measure,
while local collectives in India find out what sort of organising
is possible and practical.
rahul wrote:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-india/2003-August/000974.html
> I'd like to help with administration and I was wondering how one
> could get an administration password.
You need to contact the Madurai collective. If they wish to accept help
from Balliol College at Oxford University, great!
Anyway, here are my suggestions to all:
(1) try to contact the Madurai collective and offer to consense on
and implement an editorial policy of hiding racist articles, using
the imc-india *publicly archived* (and non-commercial) mailing list
(2) try to support the *existing* (but quiet) Mumbai collective:
imc-mumbai at lists.indymedia.org
and simply propose a date/time/place for the next IMC Mumbai open
meeting and consense on how to implement an editorial policy on the
IMC Mumbai newswire
(3) organise new collectives in other cities/regions of India - after
all, the World Social Forum will supposedly be held in India next year -
it would be good to have a non-hierarchical media network already in
place. The HOWTO page is here:
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
Some people started a list imc-hyderabad at lists.indymedia.org -
initially they pressured us to declare IMC Hyderabad into existence,
but now they seem to have lost enthusiasm.
There seems to be some discussion of a lobbying campaign against
"global Indymedia", i don't see much point. Firstly, there's no point
spamming imc-india at lists.indymedia.org - this is the obvious place
where people wishing to be constructive about independent media in
India (South Asia) should be talking to *each other*. This is only
spamming people you want to support.
Secondly, people on other lists are likely to either say nothing or else
suggest you go to a place where constructive discussion can take place
- imc-india is the most obvious place, IMHO.
And thirdly, the idea of the network deciding on behalf of the Madurai
collective that it should impose a change in editorial policy is
unlikely to be effective. Everyone knows the arguments about 100% free
speech vs variations on free speech, and very few Indymedia sites are
really 100% free speech - open publishing *does* include
post-publication *hiding* of articles. But in the present case, while
it's clear that there are some articles inciting hatred against
Muslims like:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-india/2003-August/000971.html
it's also clear that there plenty of much clearer and better argued
articles analysing Hindutva and showing that fascism is fascism, e.g.
http://india.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=7056
http://india.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=7047
and there are also lots of excellent articles not directly related
to the fascist family (Sangh Parivar) like
http://india.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=7055
http://india.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=7048
So a proposal for *imposing* a non-100% free speech editorial policy
on a local collective by the network and expats is unlikely to achieve
consensus, IMHO.
Anyway, i've made several constructive suggestions above.
boud
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