[IndyMedia Bombay] IMC BOMBAY/MUMBAI : OUTREACH TO THE 30% MOST OPPRESSED LOCALS?

[boud]

<crosspost new-imc,imc-mumbai>

#
SUMMARY:
- intro
- APPLICATION SUMMARY IMC BOMBAY/MUMBAI
- OUTREACH - Dalits/Adivasis:
#

# - intro #
Dear new-imc people,
   Following my last summary of the IMC Mumbai/Bombay status:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003793.html

   i'm glad to say that we now have an editorial policy for the
IMC Bombay/Mumbai:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003834.html

so that as far as i'm concerned, the collective in place has done all
the work, at least in terms of *starting* to think and openly discuss
all the sorts of things that we feel are necessary to have a
sustainable healthy IMC. 

Although i think that more work could be done on each of these issues
to get to the level of some of the other new IMCs at their time of
application, i (only speaking for myself, of course) trust them to
continue discussing these and working on them, and i'm not willing to
delay their application on these grounds, since i'm convinced that
they have the right intentions, that the balance between all these
factors is more or less right, and i'm convinced that they're going to
continue working on these.


However, i feel that one thing - relating to outreach - still needs to
be clearly discussed in order that there are no misunderstandings
later on. It's a challenging and sensitive topic, which i don't think
should be hidden under the carpet, and again, i think it's totally
clear that the IMC Mumbai/Bombay people *do* have the right
intentions, and it's certainly not my right to decide if their
application should be delayed or not for this reason.

But i do think it should be *discussed* and people's opinions aired,
on this publicly archived list, with cc's to imc-mumbai (since most
will not subscribe to new-imc, and shekhar says that several 
people seem to have had problems subscribing): 
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/
since it really is fundamental to Indymedia. So next, the application
status summary, then the outreach question.


# - APPLICATION SUMMARY IMC BOMBAY/MUMBAI #

############################################################
APPLICATION SUMMARY:
mission statement:
http://mumbaidada.bandwidthcoop.org/info/display/mission/index.php
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003791.html

editorial policy:
http://mumbaidada.bandwidthcoop.org/info/display/howto/index.php
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003834.html

membership criteria:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003790.html

and... a functioning (though provisional) site!
http://mumbaidada.bandwidthcoop.org/
############################################################


# - OUTREACH - Dalits/Adivasis: #
1 - PRESENT STATE OF OUTREACH:
2 - BACKGROUND INFO:
3 - QUESTIONS TO DISCUSS:
(3a) - IS IT PRACTICAL/REASONABLE TO REQUEST DALIT/ADIVASI INVOLVEMENT ?
(3b) - DELAY NEW-IMC PROPOSAL WHILE WAITING FOR ACTION ON (3a) ?
4a - COMMENTS ON (3a):
4b - COMMENTS ON (3b):


1 - PRESENT STATE OF OUTREACH:
It's clear that the IMC Bombay/Mumbai people are doing a lot
of work of outreach, e.g. see
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003832.html
and it's clear that they have the right intentions, and also
that they have lots of activist experience and contact with a
wide variety of activist groups.

However, they feel that having people from the most oppressed
groups is not yet practical:

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-July/003832.html
> I think also the expectation that we could immediately reach out to
> groups working with Dalits and Adivasis/tribals is very high (the

[from the context, i think the meaning implied by "very high" is
clearly: "very high, and too high right at the moment"]

> situation is different with women's and minority groups, which have
> been coming to meetings).  Most NGOs or groups of educated
> middle-class political organisers have spent decades attempting this
> kind of dialogue with lower caste and tribal communities, and have
> failed. While we no doubt want to raise concerns of these groups, to
> expect them to participate in the IMC at the outset, when the English
> language is a major barrier, as is access to the Internet, is
> unrealistic.

2 - BACKGROUND INFO:
For more about Dalits and Adivasis, just do a google search, or 
look up
Dalits (about 25% of population): 
http://www.dalits.org/ (site run by dalits)
http://saxakali.com/southasia/ambedkar.htm

Adivasis (about 8% of population):
http://saxakali.com/southasia/adavasi.htm
http://www.narmada.org/nba-press-releases/march-2001/false.charges.html

or else i know that shekhar and sanjay could tell you a lot more than
i could. But in short, AFAIK, Dalits are those who used to be called
the "untouchables" (the non-caste below all the castes), and adivasis
generally live in something like traditional hunter/gather lifestyles
and have low literacy rates - the two groups are clearly the most
oppressed groups, forming about 30% of the population. If much more
than 3 people are in the IMC Mumbai/Bombay group (and it seems there
are much more than 40 on the mailing list...), then it can hardly 
be grassroots if the "bottom 30%" are not involved, especially when
they live more or less just across the street...


3 - QUESTIONS TO DISCUSS:
(3a) - IS IT PRACTICAL/REASONABLE TO REQUEST DALIT/ADIVASI INVOLVEMENT ?
 Is it practical or reasonable to request IMC Mumbai/Bombay people
to cross the street and invite some Dalits and Adivasis to take
part in meetings - and to take part in *control*, non-hierarchical
control, of course, of meetings, including facilitating and
decision-making, editorial decisions on what to hide or not to
hide, as well as content provision?

(3b) - DELAY NEW-IMC PROPOSAL WHILE WAITING FOR ACTION ON (3a) ?
Is it reasonable to delay proposal of IMC Mumbai/Bombay until
they've made some effort in this direction?

4a - COMMENTS ON (3a):
Using multilingual people (and most locals in Mumbai surely speak some
Marathi or at least Hindi, and it should not be too difficult to find
highly fluent Marathi speakers), and using a mix of printed materials,
sub-division into language groups and then recombination into larger
groups, is it really that difficult to have this participation?

Surely English speakers can accept to be translators/typists for
Dalits on a voluntary basis while waiting to get work done on 
multi-lingual aspects of the site and on practical ideas for
internet training.

My feeling is that the most difficult barrier is psychological.

It's not language. It's not the internet. And it's not geographical 
distance nor a military barrier like in, e.g. Cyprus or the Occupied
Territories. (Maybe Petros has some comments here?)

The psychological barrier may be difficult to cross, but IMHO it would
be worth it. 

IMHO, this is a situation where it really is just a question of
literally crossing the street, shaking someone's hand, and taking the
time to listen, talk, and accept to share power, to spend some time
working towards and supporting the wishes of others, to take the time
to sort through initial misunderstandings and have the patience that
it takes to build up trust. (And there is at least one web site, see
above, of dalits who are well organised and internet-active... i'm
sure they must have some local Mumbai contacts.)

The advantage of having Adivasis and Dalits starting to genuinely 
participate in decision-making right from the beginning would be that
this would really build in non-hierarchy which would be difficult
to reverse, and it would really communicate the message of what
Indymedia is about much better - it's not just about open publishing...


4b - COMMENTS ON (3b):

Remember that a delay in approval for this reason would *not* stop
Mumbai/Bombay people from organising, posting to the site, creating
specialised mailing lists (editorial, tech, whatever), it would *not*
stop people posting to the newswire, it would *not* stop people from
around the indymedia network from giving support to the Mumbai/Bombay
people, nor from making them feel welcome.

Instead, what it would do would be to send a clear message, both
during presentations in "mass media" courses and in other
"middle-class" outreach efforts, and to other IMCs, new and old,
around the world, that we really want to have media *by* the
grassroots, not just *for* the grassroots, and that we want to
encourage each other strongly to make just that little bit extra
effort to cross these psychological barriers.

To avoid any worries about hypocrisy (let's not avoid this issue!),
IMC Mumbai/Bombay people would be quite welcome to - gently, but
firmly - put similar pressure on people from any rich country IMC - or
2nd world region (e.g. IMC PL which will hopefully come through to
new-imc over the next few months) to get grassroots people really
involved and into decision-making. IMHO, the positive effect of having
people from India say to rich/2nd world IMC people "Hey, why not put
in that little bit of extra effort to get *your* grassroots people really
involved?" might be even more convincing than just having well-wishing
bourgeois westerners ;) say this to each other...

Having a delay would also remind people that Indymedia is supposed to
be really radical, not just one more activist web site.

Anyway, i've said enough, i'd like to hear what many people on
new-imc feel before i (at least) would feel ready for either 
proposing IMC Bombay/Mumbai for internal new-imc approval or else
in proposing a delay. (And of course anyone else on new-imc is
equally, or better, qualified to make the proposal! i'm just one
volunteer here.)

solidarity,
boud