[IndyMedia Bombay] A personal response to bouds email
Sanjay Bhangar
sanjayb at hotpop.com
Sun, 28 Jul 2002 01:23:46 +0530
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(to the new-imc group, cc'ed to the IMC-Bombay group)
Hello all,
I am writing the following as an individual and not representing the IMC =
here. Take it as youthful rebellion, but I think I'd be doing a =
disservice to myself, the group here, and the IMC network if I didn't =
say what I felt.
This is in response to boud's email. Before I start, I should emphasize =
that we have been very touched by all the help we've received from the =
network, and one of my reasons for being involved in the network is this =
great support base, networking, feeling of brotherhood, and =
non-authoritative structure.
I can't fathom a response overall to boud's email, so I'm going to =
attempt to respond to specific things said in the email.
>"Using multilingual people (and most locals in Mumbai surely speak some
>Marathi or at least Hindi, and it should not be too difficult to find
>highly fluent Marathi speakers), and using a mix of printed materials,
>sub-division into language groups and then recombination into larger
>groups, is it really that difficult to have this participation?
>Surely English speakers can accept to be translators/typists for
>Dalits on a voluntary basis while waiting to get work done on=20
>multi-lingual aspects of the site and on practical ideas for
>internet training.
>My feeling is that the most difficult barrier is psychological.
>It's not language. It's not the internet. And it's not geographical=20
>distance nor a military barrier like in, e.g. Cyprus or the Occupied
>Territories. (Maybe Petros has some comments here?)
>The psychological barrier may be difficult to cross, but IMHO it would
>be worth it.=20
>IMHO, this is a situation where it really is just a question of
>literally crossing the street, shaking someone's hand, and taking the
>time to listen, talk, and accept to share power, to spend some time
>working towards and supporting the wishes of others, to take the time
>to sort through initial misunderstandings and have the patience that
>it takes to build up trust. (And there is at least one web site, see
>above, of dalits who are well organised and internet-active... i'm
>sure they must have some local Mumbai contacts.)
>The advantage of having Adivasis and Dalits starting to genuinely=20
>participate in decision-making right from the beginning would be that
>this would really build in non-hierarchy which would be difficult
>to reverse, and it would really communicate the message of what
>Indymedia is about much better - it's not just about open =
publishing..."
I appreciate comments and suggestions on getting more people involved, =
but telling us how exactly to do something is unnacceptable. We have =
reiterated that we do understand the importance of getting dalits and =
adivasis involved and said we will go about the issue creatively and =
tactfully, and I hoped the network would trust us in this . Things are =
not as easy as Boud makes them out to be, and there are lots of factors =
involved, and again, if there isn't the trust that we will function and =
endeavour to do this as best as we can, there is really no point in us =
even endeavouring to be a part of the network. I, for one, do not wish =
to be part of a network which is constantly telling us what to do and =
how to do it. To me, that is not the purpose of the IMC.
>"Instead, what it would do would be to send a clear message, both
>during presentations in "mass media" courses and in other
>"middle-class" outreach efforts, and to other IMCs, new and old,
>around the world, that we really want to have media *by* the
>grassroots, not just *for* the grassroots, and that we want to
>encourage each other strongly to make just that little bit extra
>effort to cross these psychological barriers."
Make an example of us, by showing how strongly you'll can enforce your =
rules? Is this what the IMC is about?
>"To avoid any worries about hypocrisy (let's not avoid this issue!),
>IMC Mumbai/Bombay people would be quite welcome to - gently, but
>firmly - put similar pressure on people from any rich country IMC - or
>2nd world region (e.g. IMC PL which will hopefully come through to
>new-imc over the next few months) to get grassroots people really
>involved and into decision-making. IMHO, the positive effect of having
>people from India say to rich/2nd world IMC people "Hey, why not put
>in that little bit of extra effort to get *your* grassroots people =
really
>involved?" might be even more convincing than just having well-wishing
>bourgeois westerners ;) say this to each other..."
I am sorry, but I for one, have no intention of playing policeman and =
making sure other IMC's function the way they should or anything like =
that. As I understand it, the IMC is a network of like-minded people to =
provide support, encouragement and help, not to watch over eachother and =
enforce rules on eachother. One of the main reasons for me wanting to be =
a part of the IMC was the fact that it is a network of autonomous =
collectives, and NOT co-enforcing groups of people.
>"Having a delay would also remind people that Indymedia is supposed to
>be really radical, not just one more activist web site."
I dont know what this statement is supposed to mean, but if Indymedia is =
so exclusionist about its "radicalness", I think that defeats the =
purpose of itself. And the whole concept of using this delay to make an =
example and "remind people" sounds awfully authoritarian to me.
I love the IMC concept - I love it BECAUSE it is anti-authoritarian, =
non-hierachical and all inclusive. If our collective is constantly going =
to face this sort of inspection to make sure we're doing things =
"properly", I for one, would not want to be part of the network. Again, =
I do not speak for the group, and perhaps I am over-reacting, but I know =
I am not able to function when there is someone acting in a position of =
authority and telling me what to do and how to do it, and laying down =
consequences if I dont get that done. I may be wrong, but I see boud's =
email as attempting to do exactly that with the group.
In our last IMC Bombay meeting, we discussed this very issue - the IMC, =
being non-hierachical, and non-authoritarian, and yet having this =
seemingly authoritarian process of application and filling up of forms, =
etc. I defended the whole concept saying that the whole new-imc process =
was more to provide support to new-imc's, helping, encouraging and being =
a support, and its purpose was not to legislate or enforce, for that is =
how I understood it then. After boud's email, unfortunately, I cannot =
say the same, and I see the purpose of the new-imc process being to =
enforce a set of laws onto us, and something like this easily translates =
itself into a continuing process of making sure that we're "doing things =
right." If this is the kind of attitude we have to face in our setting =
up and running, for me at least, it would create an atmosphere where I =
would be thinking twice about every aspect of our functioning, projects, =
and running of the website, constantly thinking if the global IMC =
network would "approve", and this is not the kind of atmosphere I think =
we should function in.
I hope we can overcome these issues and work together, for I have great =
faith in the power of the Indymedia network and its ability to bring =
about real change in society. Looking forward to a response,
In solidarity,
Sanjay
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(to the new-imc group, cc'ed to the =
IMC-Bombay=20
group)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Hello all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>I am writing the following as an =
individual and not=20
representing the IMC here. Take it as youthful rebellion, but I think =
I'd be=20
doing a disservice to myself, the group here, and the IMC network if I =
didn't=20
say what I felt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>This is in response to boud's email. =
Before I=20
start, I should emphasize that we have been very touched by all the help =
we've=20
received from the network, and one of my reasons for being involved in =
the=20
network is this great support base, networking, feeling of brotherhood, =
and=20
non-authoritative structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>I can't fathom a response overall to =
boud's email,=20
so I'm going to attempt to respond to specific things said in the=20
email.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>"<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Using=20
multilingual people (and most locals in Mumbai surely speak =
some<BR>>Marathi=20
or at least Hindi, and it should not be too difficult to =
find<BR>>highly=20
fluent Marathi speakers), and using a mix of printed=20
materials,<BR>>sub-division into language groups and then =
recombination into=20
larger<BR>>groups, is it really that difficult to have this=20
participation?<BR><BR>>Surely English speakers can accept to be=20
translators/typists for<BR>>Dalits on a voluntary basis while waiting =
to get=20
work done on <BR>>multi-lingual aspects of the site and on practical =
ideas=20
for<BR>>internet training.<BR><BR>>My feeling is that the most =
difficult=20
barrier is psychological.<BR><BR>>It's not language. It's not the =
internet.=20
And it's not geographical <BR>>distance nor a military barrier like =
in, e.g.=20
Cyprus or the Occupied<BR>>Territories. (Maybe Petros has some =
comments=20
here?)<BR><BR>>The psychological barrier may be difficult to cross, =
but IMHO=20
it would<BR>>be worth it. <BR><BR>>IMHO, this is a situation where =
it=20
really is just a question of<BR>>literally crossing the street, =
shaking=20
someone's hand, and taking the<BR>>time to listen, talk, and accept =
to share=20
power, to spend some time<BR>>working towards and supporting the =
wishes of=20
others, to take the time<BR>>to sort through initial =
misunderstandings and=20
have the patience that<BR>>it takes to build up trust. (And there is =
at least=20
one web site, see<BR>>above, of dalits who are well organised and=20
internet-active... i'm<BR>>sure they must have some local Mumbai=20
contacts.)<BR><BR>>The advantage of having Adivasis and Dalits =
starting to=20
genuinely <BR>>participate in decision-making right from the =
beginning would=20
be that<BR>>this would really build in non-hierarchy which would be=20
difficult<BR>>to reverse, and it would really communicate the message =
of=20
what<BR>>Indymedia is about much better - it's not just about open=20
publishing..."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>I appreciate comments and suggestions =
on getting=20
more people involved, but telling us how exactly to do something is=20
unnacceptable. We have reiterated that we do understand the importance =
of=20
getting dalits and adivasis involved and said we will go about the issue =
creatively and tactfully, and I hoped the network would trust us in this =
.=20
Things are not as easy as Boud makes them out to be, and there are lots =
of=20
factors involved, and again, if there isn't the trust that we will =
function and=20
endeavour to do this as best as we can, there is really no point in us =
even=20
endeavouring to be a part of the network. I, for one, do not wish to be =
part of=20
a network which is constantly telling us what to do and how to do it. To =
me,=20
that is not the purpose of the IMC.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>>"<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Instead, what it =
would do would=20
be to send a clear message, both<BR>>during presentations in "mass =
media"=20
courses and in other<BR>>"middle-class" outreach efforts, and to =
other IMCs,=20
new and old,<BR>>around the world, that we really want to have media =
*by*=20
the<BR>>grassroots, not just *for* the grassroots, and that we want=20
to<BR>>encourage each other strongly to make just that little bit=20
extra<BR>>effort to cross these psychological=20
barriers."</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Make an example of us, by showing how =
strongly=20
you'll can enforce your rules? Is this what the IMC is=20
about?</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>>"To avoid any =
worries about=20
hypocrisy (let's not avoid this issue!),<BR>>IMC Mumbai/Bombay people =
would=20
be quite welcome to - gently, but<BR>>firmly - put similar pressure =
on people=20
from any rich country IMC - or<BR>>2nd world region (e.g. IMC PL =
which will=20
hopefully come through to<BR>>new-imc over the next few months) to =
get=20
grassroots people really<BR>>involved and into decision-making. IMHO, =
the=20
positive effect of having<BR>>people from India say to rich/2nd world =
IMC=20
people "Hey, why not put<BR>>in that little bit of extra effort to =
get *your*=20
grassroots people really<BR>>involved?" might be even more convincing =
than=20
just having well-wishing<BR>>bourgeois westerners ;) say this to each =
other..."</FONT><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I am sorry, but I for one, have no =
intention of=20
playing policeman and making sure other IMC's function the way they =
should or=20
anything like that. As I understand it, the IMC is a network of=20
like-minded people to provide support, encouragement and help, not =
to watch=20
over eachother and enforce rules on eachother. One of the main reasons =
for me=20
wanting to be a part of the IMC was the fact that it is a network of =
autonomous=20
collectives, and NOT co-enforcing groups of=20
people.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>>"<FONT size=3D3>Having a delay would also remind =
people that=20
Indymedia is supposed to<BR>>be really radical, not just one more =
activist=20
web site."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I dont know what this statement is supposed to mean, =
but if=20
Indymedia is so exclusionist about its "radicalness", I think that =
defeats=20
the purpose of itself. And the whole concept of using this delay to make =
an=20
example and "remind people" sounds awfully authoritarian to =
me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I love the IMC concept - I love it =
BECAUSE it is=20
anti-authoritarian, non-hierachical and all inclusive. If our collective =
is=20
constantly going to face this sort of inspection to make sure we're =
doing things=20
"properly", I for one, would not want to be part of the network. Again, =
I do not=20
speak for the group, and perhaps I am over-reacting, but I know I am not =
able to=20
function when there is someone acting in a position of authority and =
telling me=20
what to do and how to do it, and laying down consequences if I dont get =
that=20
done. I may be wrong, but I see boud's email as attempting to do exactly =
that=20
with the group.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>In our last IMC Bombay meeting, we discussed this =
very issue -=20
the IMC, being non-hierachical, and non-authoritarian, and yet having =
this=20
seemingly authoritarian process of application and filling up of forms, =
etc. I=20
defended the whole concept saying that the whole new-imc process was =
more to=20
provide support to new-imc's, helping, encouraging and being a support, =
and its=20
purpose was not to legislate or enforce, for that is how I understood it =
then.=20
After boud's email, unfortunately, I cannot say the same, and I see the =
purpose=20
of the new-imc process being to enforce a set of laws onto us, and =
something=20
like this easily translates itself into a continuing process of making =
sure that=20
we're "doing things right." If this is the kind of attitude we have to =
face in=20
our setting up and running, for me at least, it would create an =
atmosphere where=20
I would be thinking twice about every aspect of our functioning, =
projects, and=20
running of the website, constantly thinking if the global IMC network =
would=20
"approve", and this is not the kind of atmosphere I think we should =
function=20
in.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I hope we can overcome these issues and work =
together, for I=20
have great faith in the power of the Indymedia network and its ability =
to bring=20
about real change in society. Looking forward to a =
response,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In =
solidarity,</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><FONT=20
size=3D3>Sanjay</FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BO=
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