[IMC Bombay] Single Brushstroke Judgement
yashodhara pawar
Yashodhara.Pawar at unilever.com
Thu, 3 Apr 2003 10:39:39 +0530
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I wanted to add in a quick opinion. I think this war is being used as a sole
weapon to paint the US of A as the Bad Guy. While this is absolutely the truth,
in a narrow sense, a more nuanced view allows one to admit that indeed the US
has exemplified democracy and personal freedom on many levels.
I ask not your inflamed , passionate retorts. While I dont support the war or
even the ham-handed way the US conducted the diplomatic process preceding the
war, I do acknowledge that the US is undermining itself and the many stellar
freedoms and opportunities it offers for people from all over the world. An
American today is likely to be a Zairian or an Chinese by birth. Americans, in
totality, are in fact US. We, through our immigration and our back-breaking
efforts in the land of opportunity, grab the right to vote for the leaders who
make these decisions. I am not separating myself from the multitude of my
nation's original peoples who have immigrated there.
I lived in that country for a good 12 years before returning. Like the war,
there were many testicularly stupid decisions the US government had made. But,
the freedom the society offered for me to take massive risks, personal,
professional, emotional are unparalleled.
_My opinions.
-Yashodhara
-----Original Message-----
From: nity68@vsnl.com [SMTP:nity68@vsnl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:17 PM
To: sushbee@hotmail.com; u ma
Cc: imc-mumbai@lists.indymedia.org
Subject: Re: [IMC Bombay] squeak up (against Saddam, not the war)
hello uma:
your offer of germany, russia or the US as a superpower leaves me wondering.
that is like
asking if i would prefer to get raped or murdered. Neither is my answer. as far
as US doing a
good job of being a big brother, please understand that US' interest in world
democracy has
nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with US' interests. US
corporations are
perhaps the most deadly when it comes to robbing democracy where it counts --
among the
small, often disadvantaged communities, where they operate and whose resources
they
depend on.
America's actions -- military or otherwise -- are blatantly dictated by and
done in proxy for its
corporations. You may have heard about the spraying of Monsanto's round-up (a
deadly
herbicide) over the fields of Colombia to wipe out cocoa crops. Despite
complaints by farmers
(not cocoa farmers) that they are poisoned by and injured by the poison spray,
the US goes
about business-as-usual. Even in war, we're not prepared to accept civilian
deaths. How can
we accept it when there is no war?
It would be almost clicheic to remind you that America's business of war
involves arming a
tyrant, and later disarming the same guy once things get uncomfortable for USA.
America may win this war. But it has forever lost its peace. If God really does
bless America, i
think that God is different (perhaps more powerful) from the one that is to
take care of the rest
of the world.
i hope those of you who are willing to study the problems facing your country
objectively need
to understand that the world may live with a big brother, but that doesn't mean
we like it or
would thank america for it.
Big brother, I hear, is cutting federal funding for schools and hospitals to
feed its army. A
wiser, more just approach would involve fighting the war against racism,
against poverty,
against illiteracy, against small-mindedness within the United States. As some
great sould
said: "It would be a great day when our schools had all the money they need,
and the Air
Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a new bomber."
ciao, nity
On 1 Apr 2003 at 4:06, u ma wrote:
>
> Sushma,
> I understand completely that most people have picked a side in this conflict
already and are sticking
> with it, no matter what anybody else might point out.But having said that,
unfortunately I am still
> going to have to disagree with most of the points you brought up.
>
> The fact is I would be just as 'gung ho' about my position, if my own
government was run by a
> dictator and his cronies for over 30 years, and an external coalition had to
come in to remove it from
> power.
> My country does not equal thebureaucratic Establishment at the capital that
makes and breaks
> laws as they please. My country, and her population is far more important
than that. Edward Abbey
> said it best, when he wrote that a true patriot must always be ready to
defend his country against
> his government.
>
> I could probably wonder out loud, why the Iraqis you mention hadn't have gone
back into Iraq to fight
> against Saddam earlier before this whole thing snowballed into a mess,and
taken care of this
> problem by themselves instead of forcing the West to interefere, but I won't.
>
> ______________________
>
> Yes, the United States often acts unilaterally. Obviously, most Americans
still haven't realised that
> a lot of times their opinions are treated with distaste, not because of who
they are, but because of
> what they do. And that arm wrestling one's allies into submission with big
budget media blitzes and
> economic aid isn't helping them either.
>
> However, we should remember that even though the world is a dangerous place,
it is not particularly
> so, to the U.S or the industrialized West. Maybe not even for a middle-of-the
rung power like India.
> We can solve our own problems.
> It is the smaller nations : the Liberias, the Somalias, the Bosnias, the
Tibets, the peace starved,
> democracy bereft countries of the Middle East that need a Big Brother to keep
the peace. And while
> the US does not always do a particularly good job of playing a responsible
super power/ beagle,
> the world would be a sorrier place if some other nation were to take its'
place.
>
> Would any of us be more comfortable if China or Russia or Germany were the
most powerful
> countryin the world, instead of the US?
>
> I guess what I am trying to say is that as human beings, and not just holders
of a royal blue
> coloured non-alignedpassport, the larger issue we should be looking at IN
THIS PARTICULAR
> SITUATION, is not the mere sovereignty of a nation. There are times and
matters where world
> opinion and action should and must supercede the authority of a country's
internal governance.
> Human Rights and Democracy are most definitely two such concerns, that we
should all be be
> prepared to die (and hopefully live) for.
>
> For the record:
>
>
> * For those who think that this is purely about oil ( and of course, it is
not entirely NOT about
> oil either) may I remind you about oil-free Bosnia in the 1990's, where
the US led NATO
> troops to prevent the genocide of Muslim Serbs and Croats, and later
stayed on, to help
> restore democracy.
> * Some of the world's biggest, loudest anti-war, anti-Bush rallies take
place in the United
> States. I haven't seen any anti-Saddam rallies happening in Baghdad for a
long, long time
> now.Have you?
> * I love them funky Shanti-Tshirts too :) ( Just not right now.)
>
> This is a long one. Thanks again for taking the time to read this through,
>
> Goodwill,
>
> Uma
>
>
>
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months
> FREE*._______________________________________________ IMC-Mumbai mailing list
IMC-
> Mumbai@lists.indymedia.org
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-mumbai
_______________________________________________
IMC-Mumbai mailing list
IMC-Mumbai@lists.indymedia.org
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-mumbai
--2098177-10828-1049346580=:198
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{\colortbl ;\red0\green0\blue255;}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\cf1\lang1033\f0\fs20 I wanted to add in a quick opinion. I think this war is being used as a sole weapon to paint the US of A as the Bad Guy. While this is absolutely the truth, in a narrow sense, a more nuanced view allows one to admit that indeed the US has exemplified democracy and personal freedom on many levels. \par
\par
I ask not your inflamed , passionate retorts. While I dont support the war or even the ham-handed way the US conducted the diplomatic process preceding the war, I do acknowledge that the US is undermining itself and the many stellar freedoms and opportunities it offers for people from all over the world. An American today is likely to be a Zairian or an Chinese by birth. Americans, in totality, are in fact US. We, through our immigration and our back-breaking efforts in the land of opportunity, grab the right to vote for the leaders who make these decisions. I am not separating myself from the multitude of my nation's original peoples who have immigrated there.\par
\par
I lived in that country for a good 12 years before returning. Like the war, there were many testicularly stupid decisions the US government had made. But, the freedom the society offered for me to take massive risks, personal, professional, emotional are unparalleled. \par
_My opinions.\par
-Yashodhara\par
\par
\pard\li360\cf0\protect\f1\fs16 -----Original Message-----\par
\protect0\pard\protect\fi-1440\li1800\tx1440\b From:\tab\b0 nity68@vsnl.com [SMTP:nity68@vsnl.com]\par
\b Sent:\tab\b0 Tuesday, April 01, 2003 8:17 PM\par
\b To:\tab\b0 sushbee@hotmail.com; u ma\par
\b Cc:\tab\b0 imc-mumbai@lists.indymedia.org\par
\b Subject:\tab\b0 Re: [IMC Bombay] squeak up (against Saddam, not the war)\par
\protect0\pard\protect\li360\f0\fs20\par
hello uma:\par
your offer of germany, russia or the US as a superpower leaves me wondering. that is like \par
asking if i would prefer to get raped or murdered. Neither is my answer. as far as US doing a \par
good job of being a big brother, please understand that US' interest in world democracy has \par
nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with US' interests. US corporations are \par
perhaps the most deadly when it comes to robbing democracy where it counts -- among the \par
small, often disadvantaged communities, where they operate and whose resources they \par
depend on.\par
\par
America's actions -- military or otherwise -- are blatantly dictated by and done in proxy for its \par
corporations. You may have heard about the spraying of Monsanto's round-up (a deadly \par
herbicide) over the fields of Colombia to wipe out cocoa crops. Despite complaints by farmers \par
(not cocoa farmers) that they are poisoned by and injured by the poison spray, the US goes \par
about business-as-usual. Even in war, we're not prepared to accept civilian deaths. How can \par
we accept it when there is no war?\par
\par
It would be almost clicheic to remind you that America's business of war involves arming a \par
tyrant, and later disarming the same guy once things get uncomfortable for USA.\par
\par
America may win this war. But it has forever lost its peace. If God really does bless America, i \par
think that God is different (perhaps more powerful) from the one that is to take care of the rest \par
of the world.\par
\par
i hope those of you who are willing to study the problems facing your country objectively need \par
to understand that the world may live with a big brother, but that doesn't mean we like it or \par
would thank america for it.\par
\par
Big brother, I hear, is cutting federal funding for schools and hospitals to feed its army. A \par
wiser, more just approach would involve fighting the war against racism, against poverty, \par
against illiteracy, against small-mindedness within the United States. As some great sould \par
said: "It would be a great day when our schools had all the money they need, and the Air \par
Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a new bomber."\par
\par
ciao, nity\par
\par
On 1 Apr 2003 at 4:06, u ma wrote:\par
\par
> \par
> Sushma,\par
> I understand completely that most people have picked a side in this conflict already and are sticking \par
> with it, no matter what anybody else might point out.But having said that, unfortunately I am still \par
> going to have to disagree with most of the points you brought up. \par
> \par
> The fact is I would be just as 'gung ho' about my position, if my own government was run by a \par
> dictator and his cronies for over 30 years, and an external coalition had to come in to remove it from \par
> power.\par
> My country does not equal thebureaucratic Establishment at the capital that makes and breaks \par
> laws as they please. My country, and her population is far more important than that. Edward Abbey \par
> said it best, when he wrote that a true patriot must always be ready to defend his country against \par
> his government. \par
> \par
> I could probably wonder out loud, why the Iraqis you mention hadn't have gone back into Iraq to fight \par
> against Saddam earlier before this whole thing snowballed into a mess,and taken care of this \par
> problem by themselves instead of forcing the West to interefere, but I won't.\par
> \par
> ______________________\par
> \par
> Yes, the United States often acts unilaterally. Obviously, most Americans still haven't realised that \par
> a lot of times their opinions are treated with distaste, not because of who they are, but because of \par
> what they do. And that arm wrestling one's allies into submission with big budget media blitzes and \par
> economic aid isn't helping them either.\par
> \par
> However, we should remember that even though the world is a dangerous place, it is not particularly \par
> so, to the U.S or the industrialized West. Maybe not even for a middle-of-the rung power like India. \par
> We can solve our own problems. \par
> It is the smaller nations : the Liberias, the Somalias, the Bosnias, the Tibets, the peace starved, \par
> democracy bereft countries of the Middle East that need a Big Brother to keep the peace. And while \par
> the US does not always do a particularly good job of playing a responsible super power/ beagle, \par
> the world would be a sorrier place if some other nation were to take its' place.\par
> \par
> Would any of us be more comfortable if China or Russia or Germany were the most powerful \par
> countryin the world, instead of the US?\par
> \par
> I guess what I am trying to say is that as human beings, and not just holders of a royal blue \par
> coloured non-alignedpassport, the larger issue we should be looking at IN THIS PARTICULAR \par
> SITUATION, is not the mere sovereignty of a nation. There are times and matters where world \par
> opinion and action should and must supercede the authority of a country's internal governance. \par
> Human Rights and Democracy are most definitely two such concerns, that we should all be be \par
> prepared to die (and hopefully live) for. \par
> \par
> For the record: \par
> \par
> \par
> * For those who think that this is purely about oil ( and of course, it is not entirely NOT about \par
> oil either) may I remind you about oil-free Bosnia in the 1990's, where the US led NATO \par
> troops to prevent the genocide of Muslim Serbs and Croats, and later stayed on, to help \par
> restore democracy. \par
> * Some of the world's biggest, loudest anti-war, anti-Bush rallies take place in the United \par
> States. I haven't seen any anti-Saddam rallies happening in Baghdad for a long, long time \par
> now.Have you? \par
> * I love them funky Shanti-Tshirts too :) ( Just not right now.)\par
> \par
> This is a long one. Thanks again for taking the time to read this through,\par
> \par
> Goodwill,\par
> \par
> Uma\par
> \par
> \par
> \par
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months \par
> FREE*._______________________________________________ IMC-Mumbai mailing list IMC-\par
> Mumbai@lists.indymedia.org http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-mumbai \par
\par
\par
_______________________________________________\par
IMC-Mumbai mailing list\par
IMC-Mumbai@lists.indymedia.org\par
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-mumbai\par
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}
--2098177-10828-1049346580=:198--