[imc-tech-solidarity] summary and log of the tech-solidarity irc meeting of may 14th 2003

[evan]

Note, we have another meeting schedule for May 22nd at the same time.

Summary:
	Sending to all three ports is VERY expensive ($10,000)
	We expored three options:
		1. Container to Brasil, ship computers for uruguay and =
argentina		   =20
to Porto Alegre. =46rom there legally importing them to the
		   other countries.
		2. Same as 1 but using more creative =
importing/transporation methods.
		3. Ship a 20 foot container to brasil and argentina, and =
		   pallets =20
of computers to uruguay.
	Chile late in the meeting discussed shipping theirs totally =
seperately.
=09

Log file opened at: 5/14/03 7:22:36 PM
[8:26] rabble: sorry, i didn't write my proposal, i failed on my =20
homework....
[8:27] pablo: what proposal?
[8:28] rabble: to imc-finance i was going to write up something, still =20=

will, but it will be asking for the additional funds we need to make =20
this shipment happen
[8:28] pablo: cool
[8:29] rabble: i just got off of almost three days getting from la paz =20=

to rosario...
[8:29] ***: a3m (~jirc@216.254.6.208) has joined the channel
[8:30] a3m: yeah, im there already-  hello all.
[8:32] a3m: Talked with Jeremy in Portland Ore by phone.  He explained =20=

the (lack of) space and facilities there for our extra computers.  So =20=

we have a 2nd shipment almost departed.  This to?  both Argentina and =20=

Brazil?  Any other locations in mind, or stay with this until they cry =20=

Basta?
[8:33] rabble: a3m well teh situation is complicated
[8:33] rabble: we haven't decided exactly where we are shipping
[8:33] rabble: BUT if we could get some more computers i think it =20
wouild releive some of the presure and infighting among imc's recieving =20=

the computers
[8:34] comfrey: we here in portland are having work parties soon, so =20
may soon have room for more
[8:35] comfrey: we should be sending 80 or so south (oakland) by the =20
end of the month
[8:39] a3m: Jer said try to do a truck to them by the weekend, so =20
protland could decide how big a truck- how many pallets aboard.  And =20
any extra ram would be greatly appreciated...
[8:39] a3m: end of month we can reasonably perform some thing- even a =20=

short roadtrip
[8:40] rabble: i feel SO fucking stupid
[8:40] a3m: why
[8:40] rabble: in oakland i was giving a bag full of maybe 60 sticks of =20=

64 meg dimm's which i LOST in the shuffle
[8:40] rabble: i searched and searched for it, but it was totally lost
[8:41] comfrey: we here in portland have money to buy the ram.  no prob
[8:42] rabble: still it would have been a lot better if i hadn't =20
fuckedup.. oh well.
[8:42] comfrey: i dont know if jer knows exactlly what is happening
[8:43] comfrey: not that any one knows exactlly what is happening
[8:43] comfrey: but he is not the main portland contact
[8:44] a3m: one could substitue any imc name and still that statement =20=

is too valid.  I love decentralization.  But info sharing and =20
coordination is a different thing.  , yes, your last comment- if anyone =20=

knows...
[8:45] rabble: a3m how many computers are we taking?
[8:45] rabble: talking
[8:46] comfrey: a3m, what do you mean a truck this weekend?
[8:48] comfrey: a3m what i mean is we have one main contact with =20
freegeek to make it easy for them,  lots of folks were away last =20
weekend so we are lacking somewhat on the info sharing
Log file closed at: 5/14/03 8:49:23 PM

Log file opened at: 5/14/03 8:52:43 PM
[8:53] ***: You have joined the channel
[8:53] comfrey: when we head to oakland, you all can head to portland.
[8:54] comfrey: hopefully gnome will join soon, but this is what we =20
discussed this past weekend
[8:55] comfrey: as we make progress at freegeek, perhaps the situation =20=

will change
[8:56] comfrey: it would be nice if they could all go to the bay area =20=

at once and save shipping costs
[8:56] comfrey: we will try to arrange that
[8:58] comfrey: freegeek's address is listed @ freegeek.org, but yes =20
the shipment needs to be organised
[8:58] comfrey: freegeek has a relative abundance of cd roms
[8:59] rabble: i missed the answer to how many computers are in seattle
[9:00] ***: ana (~ircap75@200.69.251.33) has joined the channel
[9:01] ***: Frederico_SP (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[9:01] ***: crisxyz (crisxyz_th@200.83.171.98) has joined the channel
[9:02] Frederico_SP: hi there, I'm frederico from S=E3o Paulo IMC
[9:03] crisxyz: hi frederico
[9:03] ***: vitor (vitor@200.152.62.178) has joined the channel
[9:03] ***: mic (~mic@216.218.240.169) has joined the channel
[9:03] mic: hello
[9:03] ***: mic has quit IRC (Client Quit)
[9:04] ***: mic (~mic@216.218.240.191) has joined the channel
[9:04] mic: helloooo
[9:04] comfrey: hey mic
[9:04] guido: hi
[9:04] crisxyz: hi to everybody, i'm cris from chile IMC
[9:05] rabble: hi chris
[9:05] rabble: hey mic
[9:05] pablo: hello cris
[9:06] Frederico_SP: hi cris
[9:06] mic: that last log i sent out, did anyone notice if it was =20
encrypted?
[9:06] a3m: `frederico, and others from destination cities---what do we =20=

need to send, perhaps what should we be sending that we are NOT =20
sending?  Sho8uld we look for some up to date server boxes?  all we =20
have are4x .6 meg drive stuff
[9:07] rabble: a3m the one thing most consistantly asked for are video =20=

cameras, even hi8 ones, as that is what most video activists use
[9:08] rabble: another big issue, is that of voltage. Brasil has a =20
different voltate for each town, although MOST are either 110 or 220, =20=

Uruguay and Argentina are 220, bolivia is BOTH (every outlet has a =20
sticker saying what it is)
[9:08] rabble: and i don't know what Chile is
[9:08] ***: RHATTO (berne@200.98.139.22) has joined the channel
[9:09] crisxyz: we need 6 pcs
[9:09] rabble: computers tend to have a switch to go from 110 to 220, =20=

but monitors and other equiptmetn such as routers most often don't
[9:09] Frederico_SP: we are looking for a donation of a video camera, a =20=

mini dv if possible, tomake possible to edit with final cut in macs (we =20=

have acces to macs)
[9:09] comfrey: are the outlets 3prong?
[9:09] mic: anyone loggin?\
[9:09] pablo: a3m: a few things would be nice: a few (10 or so) better =20=

machines so the collectives can edit video, audio, etc in their =20
offices; many hubs to set up the networks; finally it would be good if =20=

we got at least one good machine - in sao paulo we got a good fast free =20=

acess at the university and we could do a latin mail server for =20
indymedia
[9:10] * comfrey is loggiin
[9:10] a3m: And monitors?  are they worth shipping- in comparison to =20
the cost of disposal here?  Yeah, I hear the hi8 request regularly.  We =20=

can purchase for maybe $250- $400 range (low hig to my rememberances =20
last look some months past.  depends on model changes etc.  I never =20
looked "online"  This is something perhaps we need to look for some =20
$$angels$$ about
[9:10] rabble: for the first shipment we got several mac G3's with =20
video cards, but i don't remember us having any of those so far for =20
this shipment
[9:11] rabble: a3m we have tons of monitors, i haven't figured out what =20=

precentage failed for the ecuador shipment, but that will tell us how =20=

many to include
[9:11] rabble: last time we shipped 300 monitors for 240 computers
[9:12] mic: there is room for about 7 more palletes
[9:12] mic: portland plans to bring ~65 computers, hopefully
[9:13] comfrey: yes, by the end of the month
[9:13] comfrey: perhaps more
[9:13] mic: cool, thanks
[9:13] mic: alot
[9:13] mic: so, josh said that was about 4 palletes?
[9:14] comfrey: let us know how many monitors,  we have unlimited 14 in
[9:14] rabble: you can fit between 30 and 40 computers on a pallet, of =20=

course you also need to include keyboards, mice, cables, and monitors =20=

(which go about 30 to a pallet)
[9:14] comfrey: sounds about right, we may try to include the seattle =20=

pcs as well
[9:14] comfrey: that is +30 or so
[9:15] ***: j1o2n3a4s5 (trilluser@67.3.210.238) has joined the channel
[9:16] comfrey: is there any schedule for shipment yet?
[9:16] a3m: 30 or so parts computers that need ram and testing...but =20
month end beats this weekend!! and we can think of as many, plus a few =20=

extra, monitors?
[9:17] ***: knom (~student0@209.162.205.24) has joined the channel
[9:17] ***: pietro_ (irc@127.0.0.1) has joined the channel
[9:17] comfrey: hey knom
[9:17] knom: hey, how late am I?
[9:17] ***: xmux (~xmux@200.45.187.230) has joined the channel
[9:17] comfrey: jus gettin started
[9:18] comfrey: err, sort of
[9:18] pablo: should we formally start?
[9:18] rabble: chit chatting, waiting for folks to show up
[9:19] ivank: i'm trying to find loulee from buenos aires, i think she =20=

thougt meeting was tomorrow
[9:19] a3m: time check please.  23:15 or 00:15 right now?  Damn =20
daylight confusing time and translating it
[9:19] mic: 00:15 now
[9:23] rabble: so do we have an agenda
[9:24] mic: 1) freight forwarder update
[9:24] rabble: 2) computer situation (portland and seattle updates)
[9:25] rabble: 3) deciding how to ship / where to ship
[9:25] rabble: 0) report backs on things we agreeded to do last week
[9:26] rabble: una pregunta, todos pueden leer ingles, o necesitamos =20
hacer esta reunion en castellano o portu=F1ol tambien?
[9:26] Frederico_SP: I can read english
[9:26] guido: i can read/ and pseudotalk in english
[9:27] knom: should we set up another channel for spanish translation?
[9:27] ivank: i can pseudoread and pseudotalk
[9:27] ***: Frederico_SP has quit IRC (Remote host closed the =20
connection)
[9:28] rabble: cuando tiene una pregunta o no entiendo frases o =20
palabaras preguntar sobre esto.
[9:28] ivank: ana's here but she can't read in english so, i think it =20=

can be a great idea to translate...
[9:28] ***: carol-poa (Carol@200.221.216.170) has joined the channel
[9:28] ***: Frederico (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[9:28] ***: pablo has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[9:29] ***: sonchos (~ruche@24.232.134.19) has joined the channel
[9:29] ***: Frederico is now known as Frederico_SP
[9:29] sonchos: hola
[9:29] Frederico_SP: oi
[9:29] carol-poa: oi
[9:29] sonchos: oi boas noites
[9:29] carol-poa: boa noite, soncho, fred
[9:30] rabble: other things for the agenda? otra cosas por la agenda?
[9:30] guido: i can help translating
[9:31] guido: from english to castillian
[9:31] xmux: rabble: Maybe a quick introduction to the project, I'm =20
only marginally familiar with it
[9:31] rabble: por castellano tranduciones entra #solidaridad :)
[9:31] rabble: ok, i'll give a background before we get started
[9:32] rabble: Agenda:
[9:32] rabble: 1. Background on the project
[9:32] rabble: 2. Check in / Report back on homework
[9:32] rabble:    A. Frieght Forwarder Update (mic)
[9:32] rabble:    B. Computer situation in portland and seattle
[9:32] rabble: 3. Deciding where to ship the computers
[9:33] ***: pablo (myemail@200.183.63.28) has joined the channel
[9:34] rabble: so some background on the projet
[9:34] rabble: it started last summer (july) when eddy adn i found out =20=

we coudl get computers from accrc during the ruckus camp
[9:34] rabble: in september we fixed up a couple hundred comptuers to =20=

ship to ecuador for the FTAA summit
[9:35] rabble: the cool folks in portland jumped on board and did a =20
bunch of computers too
[9:35] ***: Die-go (Die-go@200.103.64.150) has joined the channel
[9:35] rabble: we failed to ship them in time for the ftaa (alca) =20
protests
[9:35] rabble: but we got the computers there, after 5 months of =20
paperwork hell they got toeh computers out of customs
[9:36] rabble: after that we got the crazy idea of doing a second =20
shipment to argentina
[9:36] rabble: so we fixed up the computers in january thinking we =20
could ship off them easily
[9:36] rabble: the computers in oakland were ready by mid january
[9:36] rabble: but there was two problems
[9:36] rabble: first money, we'd gotten money from soros's open society =20=

insitute to fund the shipment, the argentina and sao paulo imc's =20
consented to object to that funding
[9:37] rabble: and we didn't get our paperwork (tramites) in order
[9:37] rabble: right now the boxes are sitting in a commercial storage =20=

place in richmond (near oakland) which we're paying $220 a month for
[9:37] rabble: and some are in portland and a few boxes are in seattle
[9:37] rabble: we so far have raised about $2600 via pay pal donations
[9:37] a3m: learning curve, nothing permanent.  Look how it went with =20=

the legal help in Bra.  its getting smmother.  Boy am I glad I missed =20=

the Sorros thing.  Sheri did whisper it past me recentlyl
[9:38] ***: comfrey is now known as comfrey_afk
[9:38] rabble: it costs $2800 to ship
[9:38] rabble: plus we have about $800 in US shipping/storrage expenses
[9:38] comfrey_afk: gotta run but still logging :-)
[9:38] a3m: unless we want to use an empty drug ship returning to =20
somewhere, we gonna have to pay
[9:39] rabble: and we can expect to get a heafty storrage fee for the =20=

aduana (customs) warehouse
[9:39] rabble: the fee for ecuador was $4500!
[9:39] rabble: sorry, it's hard to give a short background to things
[9:39] rabble: any quick background questions?
[9:40] rabble: none of the initial shipment's funding came from any =20
indymedia funds (either imc-tech or imc-finance)
[9:40] xmux: Has it been decided what the computers are going to be =20
used for and how they're going to be distributed?
[9:40] a3m: Where to look for ACCEPTABLE MONEY (Ford, Sorros need not =20=

apply...) customs is just anotherword for gangster.  In Costa Rica it =20=

was obvious that they love to "highball" the prices, so as to generate =20=

big impuestas.
[9:41] rabble: xmux for the first shipment the ecuador imc came up with =20=

principles and made the decision, for this we provisionally decided =20
that the decision woudl be taking by the imc's partipating, brasil, =20
uruguay, argentina, and chile, and some sort of group of people who =20
were involved on the US end of things
[9:41] rabble: other questions?
[9:42] rabble: ok let's go on to Check-in / Updates
[9:42] ***: Nasho (~darknes@200.83.41.75) has joined the channel
[9:43] rabble: so far we've got big updates from Mic, the Portland =20
folks, Seattle, and maybe pablo (brasil)
[9:43] knom: I can go first
[9:43] ***: daniel (LL]97227@200.147.5.44) has joined the channel
[9:43] rabble: mic you'rs is going to be big, let's do the others first
[9:43] mic: k
[9:43] rabble: knom go (for the portland update)
[9:43] knom: sorry, repersenting portland
[9:44] knom: We are trading 12 (of 25) 10Meg switchs for one 32meg =20
stick of RAM for every computer that needs it (and maybe more from a =20
local computer recycler)
[9:45] knom: we have raised another $400 that originally was going to =20=

be spent on RAM but I think should be used on transportation to the bay =20=

area at this point
[9:45] knom: and if we can get more computers from seattle, we can use =20=

them and send them on down to the bay
[9:46] knom: but according to comfrey we can move the computers for =20
less than $300 so maybe we should buy the extra RAM...
[9:46] knom: <done>
[9:47] rabble: thanks knom!
[9:47] ***: Paique (fusquetinh@200.167.224.91) has joined the channel
[9:47] rabble: a3m can you give a real quick update on seattle, =20
remember to say done when you're done. <done>
[9:50] rabble: ok, let's go on
[9:50] mic: ok
[9:50] rabble: pablo, is there anythign to update regarding brasil =20
before we get to mic?
[9:50] mic: freight forwarder update
[9:50] mic: sorry
[9:50] pablo: no news, i guess
[9:50] guido: [msg(rabble)] bueno supongo que dijo que los impuestos es =20=

el gran problema
[9:50] guido: [msg(rabble)] pagaroon sobre 45000 para los de ecuador
[9:50] guido: [msg(rabble)] 4500
[9:50] guido: [msg(rabble)] sorry
[9:50] guido: [msg(rabble)] entobnces ahora van con la actualizacion de =20=

lo que pasa en
[9:50] guido:               portland
[9:51] rabble: ok, let's go with mic's update then
[9:51] mic: talked to two freight forwarders
[9:51] mic: one, jim of rosemark has offered best rate so far:
[9:52] mic: 2,800 to ship to santos, brazil
[9:52] mic: he said 3 free zone shipment would edn up costing ~10k
[9:52] mic: because:
[9:53] mic: you dont have to pay customs, but you do have to psy "on =20
carriage" each time.
[9:53] mic: and we will be paying "on carriage" for a 2/3's full and =20
then a 1/3 container
[9:54] mic: input/questions so far?
[9:54] ***: knom is now known as knom_aft_briefly
[9:54] ivank: question
[9:55] rabble: so basically he said that to ship to more than one place =20=

would be an additional $3000 for each extra place?
[9:55] mic: yes, other charges would be due to:
[9:55] ivank: so it's cheaper to do 3 sendings than useing free ports?
[9:55] mic: waiting for another ship carrier to come into port
[9:56] mic: i talked him down from 3,500 to 2,800.
[9:56] mic: so $10,000 may really be $7,000
[9:57] mic: but he convinced me it was more expensive
[9:57] rabble: did he suggest anything else?
[9:57] mic: "ltl" less than load
[9:57] mic: un-loading everything, and then putting it into a smaller =20=

container
[9:58] mic: or sharing our container with other goods
[9:58] ***: Frederico_SP has quit IRC (Remote host closed the =20
connection)
[9:59] ***: Frederico (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[9:59] rabble: so it would be cheaper to ship three 20 foot containers =20=

than to do one to three places
[9:59] rabble: ?
[9:59] mic: yes, he said.
[9:59] mic: because they would be in appropriately sized containers
[10:00] mic: rather than a 40'' x 8'' container 1/3 full
[10:00] mic: s/''/feet
[10:01] mic: basically <done>
[10:01] rabble: ok, anybody  else got updates?
[10:02] rabble: i got one, i didn't write my proposal to use =20
imc-finance funds this past week, i was on the road, but i promise i =20
will write it this week.
[10:02] rabble: end
[10:02] rabble: anybody else?
[10:03] rabble: ok, so that leaves us with logistical questions and =20
needing to decide where teh computers go, and what to do
[10:04] rabble: last week, pablo had two proposals, one to ship to =20
three places, and we discussed that for a long time
[10:04] ***: knom_aft_briefly is now known as knom
[10:04] rabble: how we realize that it will cost us around $7500 to =20
$10,000 to do that (we only have $2500)
[10:04] rabble: so, we need to decide what to do
[10:04] ***: soncho (~subversio@24.232.134.19) has joined the channel
[10:05] ***: soncho is now known as soncho-bsas
[10:05] rabble: pablo also proposed shipping to santos (sao paulo) and =20=

then using tehir donationed in country shipping connection
[10:05] rabble: to ship teh computers for uruguay, argentina, and chile =20=

to porto alegre
[10:05] rabble: from there the imc's in those countries would have to =20=

figure out how to get the computers
[10:05] rabble: anybody want to start this out?
[10:07] rabble: ok, folks
[10:07] rabble: i'll keep talking until somebody else jumps in
[10:07] rabble: the numbers we were talking about were this
[10:08] rabble: between 20 and 40 for buenos aires. rosario, and uruguay
[10:08] rabble: each
[10:08] rabble: and then the rest going to brasil
[10:09] rabble: we neeed to decide HOW many computers go to each spot, =20=

and where to ship them
[10:09] ivank: we did some numbers in our last meeting in rosario
[10:09] a3m: so 60/120 need shipped by the donated connection.  And =20
still the collectives would need to come part way to pickup?
[10:10] rabble: ivank is searching for the info. so i'll respond to a3m
[10:11] rabble: a3m yes, they would need to find shipping, but also the =20=

harder part is that it might be dificult to get import exemptions if we =20=

ship that way, meaning there might need to be some creativity at the =20
border
[10:11] rabble: end
[10:11] ivank: we have plans for 24 PCs
[10:11] ivank: that would be distributed arond the city
[10:12] ivank: and 1 hub
[10:12] ivank: and some wireless if it's in our plans, would be great
[10:13] rabble: ok
[10:13] Frederico: is there anybody from BsAs or Montevideo here?
[10:13] rabble: unfortunately the folks from buenos aires aren't here
[10:13] ivank: <end>
[10:13] xmux: I am from buenos aires, but I'm not entirely familiar =20
with the plans that the group has for the computers
[10:14] pietro_: soncho-bsas is from buenos aires too
[10:14] soncho-bsas: ey
[10:14] soncho-bsas: whast ups floks
[10:14] soncho-bsas: i am from buenos aires
[10:14] rabble: we're asking about the number of computers and waht =20
plans you folks have for htem
[10:15] ***: hendrix (~hx@200.45.130.170) has joined the channel
[10:15] rabble: i know loulee said that definately not more than 40
[10:16] rabble: ->soncho-bsas: poke
[10:16] rabble: ->soncho-bsas:  entinedo la pregunta, cuanto =20
computadoras quieren en buenos aires?
[10:16] soncho-bsas: 1) Indymedia.
[10:16] soncho-bsas: a) acceso p=FAblico a internet asamblea cid =20
campeador. (5 m=E1quinas)
[10:16] soncho-bsas: b) barrikada faltan 2 monitores y 2 teclados,si =20
hay lectora/grabadora de
[10:16] soncho-bsas: cd.
[10:16] soncho-bsas: c) Taller de dise=F1o editorial zona sur (vero) (3)
[10:16] soncho-bsas: 2) movimientos sociales
[10:16] soncho-bsas: a) Talleres de eduaci=F3n popular:
[10:16] soncho-bsas: - solano (roca negra) (5; 2 isla de edici=F3n, 3 =20=

internet y otros)
[10:16] soncho-bsas: - lan=FAs (2 internet/publicaci=F3n)
[10:16] soncho-bsas: - lugano (1 internet/publicaci=F3n)
[10:16] soncho-bsas: - san telmo (1 internet/publicaci=F3n)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: - alte. brown (1 internet/publicaci=F3n)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: b) MTD Neuqu=E9n (3 radio/internet/otros)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: c) Nuestra Lucha. Comit=E9s editoriales (redacci=F3n =
=20
diagramaci=F3n, edici=F3n de
[10:17] soncho-bsas: fotos) Neuqu=E9n, Rosario, Buenos Aires. (4)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: d) MTD Allen. redacci=F3n, diagramaci=F3n, dise=F1o =
(2)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: e) Proyecto mapuche (2)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: f) Grupo PO Mercedes (1)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: 3) grupos afines
[10:17] soncho-bsas: a) Redacci=F3n (3)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: b) Escuela de Avellaneda (2 edici=F3n de fotos)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: c) El ojo izquierdo (2 edici=F3n de video)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: d) Kino (2 edici=F3n de video)
[10:17] soncho-bsas: here are the projects for the computers
[10:18] rabble: that's 39 computers by my quick count
[10:18] ***: carol (Carol@200.221.218.116) has joined the channel
[10:18] guido: uhmm
[10:18] soncho-bsas: there are around 35
[10:19] soncho-bsas: to buenos aires and neuqen
[10:20] ivank: should I send the detailed list?
[10:20] ***: sonchos is now known as brina
[10:20] rabble: so i guess one question is do you think it's possible =20=

to get 59 (35 + 24) computers over the border from brasil to argentina
[10:21] rabble: can the donation for legally getting the computers work =20=

if they are shipped overland?
[10:21] rabble: or to put it another way, how wide is the parana river? =20=

:)  can there be another creative solution to getting teh computers =20
across the river
[10:23] ivank: i think it may work, but we need to have a GNO in brazil =20=

that donate it to us...
[10:23] xmux: Does indymedia count?
[10:23] rabble: pablo do you think an NGO in brasil would be able to =20
donate them? In ecuador they needed to sign a document saying that all =20=

the computers would be for ecuador, and none would leave teh country
[10:24] rabble: xmux no, none of this happens in the name of =20
'indymedia' we always use more offical and established groups for hte =20=

paperwork
[10:24] a3m: reg as NGO is operant question?
[10:24] pablo: rabble: I dont know. we should check Brazilian =20
legislation to see if we can get a donation and then redonate it.
[10:24] rabble: a3m it would have to be a brasilian NGO, like the one =20=

they have which offically has been recieving the computers
[10:25] rabble: so, pablo i assume you can do that adn get back to the =20=

list about the status of that
[10:25] rabble: i see our options as being this:
[10:26] rabble: 1. We ship to brasil, and then legally get them =20
importted to uruguay, argentina, and maybe chile from there
[10:26] rabble: 2. we ship to brasil, then we get teh computers for =20
uruguay and argentina to porto alegre, and 'creativily' ship them on.
[10:27] rabble: 3. we ship either 20 foot containers or pallets to each =20=

imc (a cost of $180 per sq meter) or $2500 for a 20 foot container
[10:27] rabble: any other options?
[10:28] ***: Paique is now known as awapaique
[10:28] pablo: a few questions: how many computers we have?
[10:28] ***: Frederico has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:29] mic: ~260 in total
[10:29] pablo: how much money we have and how much money more is needed =20=

for shiping?
[10:29] pablo: how many hubs do we have?
[10:29] ***: Frederico (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[10:29] rabble: i think there are a 'lot' of hubs, dozens....
[10:30] rabble: regarding money, depends on teh option, asumign we only =20=

ship to brasil we need $2800 for shipping, plus customs fees, plus the =20=

$800 we need on the US end (money that has already been spent)
[10:30] * pablo is checking with lawyer about possibility of redonating
[10:30] rabble: we have $2500
[10:30] knom: we  have 12 or 13 24 port switches here in Portland
[10:31] rabble: so we need at least $1100, but in reality i think we =20
need more like $3000, as customs will cost more than we think
[10:31] pablo: its sent from where? which port?
[10:31] rabble: and we will need money to hlep getting the comptuers =20
from porto alegre to their final destinations
[10:31] rabble: pablo shipping costs are the same for all south =20
american east coast ports
[10:33] pablo: i know, but where is it being shipped from (just =20
information the lawyer is asking)?
[10:33] mic: from oakland
[10:33] rabble: Oakland, California, USA
[10:34] pablo: thks
[10:34] rabble: but i think it will be shipped by train to miami from =20=

oakland then put on the boat
[10:34] mic: correct
[10:34] pablo: so you guy deliver at oakland but its shipped at miami?
[10:35] ***: carol-poa has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out)
[10:35] rabble: we load the container and get teh bill of lading in =20
oakland
[10:35] mic: yes, overland to miami
[10:35] rabble: it gets transfered to an actual boat in miami
[10:35] pablo: ok. cool.
[10:36] Frederico: how long it would take to arrive in santos from =20
Miami?
[10:36] rabble: i think the whole thing takes 35 days
[10:36] pablo: whos formally sending the computers?
[10:36] pablo: any institution?
[10:36] rabble: good question, last time it was Alemedia County =20
Computer Recycling Center
[10:37] rabble: a 501c3 non profit (fundacion sin impuestos or =20
something like that)
[10:38] pablo: do you think we have about 40 hubs? do computers have =20
network cards?
[10:38] rabble: this time we might not use their informoation, it might =20=

be the Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center, or FreeGeek, we need =20=

to pick one, but any non-profit can be it as far as the US end goes
[10:38] rabble: all computers have network cards (it's how we install =20=

the operating system)
[10:39] knom: we haven't talked to FreeGeek about being the donating =20
org and I'm not sure what they would say
[10:39] pablo: since most collectives both in brazil and argentina are =20=

using comps for doing networks for internet access, i think we will =20
need about 40 or so hubs
[10:39] knom: how many do you have in Oakland?
[10:39] mic: checking
[10:41] rabble: right now there are  37 in oakland
[10:41] rabble: 37 hubs/switches (most are hubs)
[10:42] pablo: we have a lot of question / details about shipment - =20
should we start questions?
[10:42] knom: I have leave in 5 minutes...
[10:43] rabble: well i think we can answer questions, we still haven't =20=

made a decision about:
[10:43] rabble: rabble: 1. We ship to brasil, and then legally get them =20=

importted to uruguay, argentina, and maybe chile from there
[10:43] rabble: rabble: 2. we ship to brasil, then we get teh computers =20=

for uruguay and argentina to porto alegre, and 'creativily' ship them =20=

on.
[10:43] rabble: rabble: 3. we ship either 20 foot containers or pallets =20=

to each imc (a cost of $180 per sq meter) or $2500 for a 20 foot =20
container
[10:43] rabble: given that that information depends on getting more =20
information
[10:43] pablo: I propose we try #1 and if it doesnt work we do #2
[10:44] xmux: We only need to decide (1 or 2) or 3 right now right?
[10:44] rabble: can the folks in argentina figure out if they can =20
import overland, i will do the research for uruguay (where i'm going to =20=

be living starting this week)
[10:44] ***: awapaique is now known as Paique
[10:44] rabble: maybe mic could price out the actual costs of doing =20
number 3
[10:45] Frederico: to do #1 we need to talk to our lawyers in Brazil =20
and i think people in Argentina and Uuruguay ahve to check it there too
[10:45] rabble: then we can go on asuming that we're either doing one =20=

or two unless three turns out to be cheap enough
[10:45] ***: brina is now known as sonchis
[10:45] mic: per pallete =3D 163 / cubic meter
[10:45] mic: $163
[10:45] ***: soncho-bsas is now known as tooorn
[10:45] rabble: you can fit 5 computers (with monitors) in one cubic =20
meter
[10:46] xmux: Yeah, three is obviously more convenient so if we can =20
afford it we should do that, if not then 1 or 2
[10:46] pablo: in either number #1 or #2 I need this info: are =20
computers numbered? will we have a list with specifications of each =20
computer?
[10:46] rabble: for each computer?
[10:46] pablo: yep
[10:46] rabble: we don't have that information
[10:46] pablo: at least some general info?
[10:47] rabble: we can give you the range of specifications for the =20
computers
[10:47] pablo: because the operation will be VERY quick
[10:47] ivank: we need that info too
[10:47] rabble: ok, here is the info from oakland:
[10:47] rabble: Monitors:
[10:47] rabble: 7 palletes, 30 each
[10:47] rabble:     210 monitors
[10:47] a3m: i tnink at least some grouping of identical boxes and a =20
spec sheet to the group?
[10:47] rabble: Computers:
[10:47] rabble: 3 palletes, mixed amounsts
[10:47] rabble:     136 computers
[10:47] rabble: Misc:
[10:47] rabble: Pallete #1
[10:47] rabble: 18 hubs
[10:47] rabble: 11 powerstrips & 4 ups
[10:47] rabble: 300 power cables
[10:47] rabble: 43 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 27 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 32 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 29 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 100 cat-5 cables + 3 hubs
[10:47] rabble: 16 hubs
[10:47] rabble: 300 power cables
[10:47] rabble: 22 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 37 ps2 keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 18 at keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 6 zips + 4 scanners
[10:47] rabble: 65 ps2  mice
[10:47] rabble: 131 ps2 mice
[10:47] rabble: 8 meg ram & scsi & ide cables
[10:47] rabble: scsi & ide cables
[10:47] rabble: 40 modems + 13 serial cables
[10:47] rabble: phone cords
[10:47] rabble: Pallete #2
[10:47] rabble: 10 ups + 100 power cords
[10:47] rabble: 13 ps2 & 11 at keyboards
[10:47] rabble: 30 modems
[10:47] rabble: 18 cd drives
[10:47] rabble: 15 floppy drives & 10 cd drives
[10:47] rabble: 30 mouse pads
[10:47] rabble: 20 ps2 mice
[10:47] rabble: Printers:
[10:47] rabble: 1 pallete w/
[10:47] rabble: 31 printers & 2 scanners & cables & cartriges
[10:47] pablo: in the very day the computer arrives we take them out of =20=

customs and the next day they are delivered - so we need to select =20
which goes where in a few hours
[10:48] rabble: this is for portland:
[10:48] rabble: 65 systems
[10:48] rabble: 72 Keyboards
[10:48] rabble: 8 Power cords
[10:48] rabble: 5 Apple Mice
[10:48] rabble: 8 Zipdrivers
[10:48] rabble: 7 Mac Printer
[10:48] rabble: 3 Scanners
[10:48] rabble: 5 Serial Mice
[10:48] rabble: 25 10/100 Switches 2 with Fiber
[10:48] rabble: --------------------------
[10:48] rabble: those lists might be a little out of date!
[10:49] knom: I got to run, comfrey is logging some message him where =20=

to send the logs
[10:49] rabble: when we did the actual inspection with teh aduana in =20
quito, he only looked in about 5 or 10 of the boxes, and said, yep, =20
these have what they say tehy have, and in the end only got through =20
about a 1/3 of the first of 10 palletts
[10:49] ***: knom has left the channel
[10:50] rabble: all the computers are stacked together on their own =20
pallets, keyboards, cables, and the like are on pallets, and then =20
monitors are put 30 to a pallet
[10:50] a3m: Comprendo.  listas por aduanas, no por gentes a imc
[10:51] pablo: is it possible to have the computers numbered and we =20
have a list of which computer has what?
[10:51] rabble: most of the computers have a sticker on them saying =20
what the specs are
[10:51] rabble: but not all
[10:52] rabble: 110 of them are identical (pentium pro 200mhz 128 megs =20=

of ram, 3 gig hard drive) dell's
[10:52] pablo: can people at the us put the label on the ones who dont =20=

have?
[10:52] a3m: certo
[10:53] rabble: the ones in oakland are already wrapped up and ready to =20=

go, but i bet teh folks in portland can label theirs
[10:53] pablo: if we dont have that, it would be impossible. we will =20
have to determine which goes where in something like 6 hours
[10:54] rabble: or you decide just on numbers of computers without =20
knowing their spec's
[10:54] rabble: all the other stuff, like boxes of keybaords, power =20
cables, adn the like are labled
[10:56] rabble: other questions?
[10:56] pablo: where do we go from now?
[10:57] ***: sonchis is now known as brina
[10:58] mic: i'll get more info about shipping by the cubic meter, as a =20=

backup
[10:58] rabble: well, i think we figure out what needs to be done to =20
ship to brasil, and shippping on from there, we ask imc-finance for =20
money ( i will send a proposal text out, but i'd like the proposal to =20=

come either from the reciving imc's or imc-tech-solidarity)
[10:58] rabble: in uruguay and argentina we need to find if we can =20
recieve the computers from brasil
[10:59] rabble: and pablo we need to get you all the paperwork and =20
donation letters for the shipment to be ready to go out
[10:59] rabble: my understanding is that the portland folks will be =20
ready to be ship by the end of the month
[10:59] rabble: let's have that be our tenative shipout date
[10:59] pablo: rabble: i think if they can get donation from the us, =20
they can get donation from brazil
[11:00] rabble: i THINK it will be doable too
[11:00] pablo: the only problem should be if we can redonate. we should =20=

answer this in a few days, after talking to the lawyers
[11:01] ***: Frederico has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:01] rabble: pablo another thing to ask the lawyers is if you can =20
some how recieve the donation and then pass it on, so that the =20
argentines are still recieving it from the US
[11:01] pablo: ok. ill ask that
[11:01] rabble: and we need to find out shipping costs / expenses from =20=

porto alegre to montevideo, rosario, and buenos aires
[11:01] ivank: i don't think it will be easy to people in brasil to =20
donate the computers to ergentina
[11:02] ***: Frederico (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[11:03] pablo: why ivank?
[11:04] pablo: i think people in argentina and montevideo find out =20
about "unlegal" ways of transporting from porto alegre to their =20
countries
[11:05] a3m: rabble, I await a proposal to finance, as I wish that to =20=

happen- money from some pocket already in place.
[11:05] ***: renato (indigne-se@200.175.137.42) has joined the channel
[11:07] rabble: ivank is aruging about how to import them in non-legal =20=

manors
[11:08] pablo: I see
[11:08] pablo: unlegally i think we could only make a small number
[11:09] rabble: yeah
[11:09] rabble: how much storage space is there in porto alegre?
[11:10] carol: how much storage space do we need?
[11:11] Frederico: room for 60 comps
[11:11] rabble: well, if we have 60 computers and monitors for argentina
[11:11] Frederico: plus some room for uruguay
[11:11] Frederico: 80 comps
[11:12] carol: I can=B4t give the answer now
[11:12] carol: but I can ask the people where we can put the computers
[11:12] rabble: so that's one palette of computers, one of cables and =20=

keyboards and three of monitors
[11:12] carol: in safe places
[11:12] carol: just a moment
[11:12] carol: I=B4ll ask camila about it
[11:13] carol: I guess she has lots of space in her house
[11:13] rabble: that's 2.5 meters a 2.5 meters a 12.5 meters
[11:14] Frederico: it's like a big garage
[11:15] carol: hey
[11:15] carol: camila said there=B4s no problem
[11:15] rabble: 2800kg
[11:15] carol: the computers can be in her house
[11:15] rabble: bueno
[11:17] ***: pietro_ has quit IRC (Quit: Client Exiting)
[11:17] rabble: so i think the meeting has wound down
[11:18] ***: brina is now known as soncho
[11:18] rabble: we have discovered the following:
[11:18] rabble: it's to expensive probably to ship to three places =20
using freezones, mic is looking in to other prices
[11:18] rabble: we are going to try and see if we cna ship to brasil, =20=

taking the comptuers for uruguay and argentina to porto alegre adn =20
shipping on from there
[11:19] rabble: when is the next meeting?
[11:19] rabble: and who is going to be responsible for what?
[11:19] ivank: ok, so... we are talking about sending all the computers =20=

to brasil. we first need to be sure that they will be able to export =20
them and then we need to pay an illegal amount of money (coima, we say) =20=

in customs in argentina and uruguay frontier to pass the computers. we =20=

think we run the risk of getting no computer in argentina and uruguay...
[11:19] rabble: i will write up the imc-finance proposal, and i will =20
get back to folk on uruguay's interest/wants
[11:20] Frederico: we will check if we can redonate the computers
[11:20] ***: RHATTO has quit IRC (Quit: Jaspion... Courageux chevalier =20=

/ Jaspion... Tu feras triompher / Jaspion... Le bonheur et l'amiti=E9 / =20=

L'amour et l)
[11:20] ivank: we need to decide if we want to run that risk
[11:21] xmux: How much does it cost to bribe custom officials?
[11:22] guido:  /quit
[11:22] ***: guido has quit IRC (Quit: [BX] Tabardation - the inability =20=

to master use of the <Tab> key. See: retardation; Headcase.)
[11:22] Frederico: You have to discover what are the risks
[11:23] hendrix: the risk of not having the amount of money to bribe to =20=

pass alot of computers
[11:24] hendrix: the bribe depends on how much you=B4re trying to pass
[11:25] hendrix: i guess :)
[11:25] xmux: I'm just wondering if that's realistically an option
[11:25] Frederico: so, you have to check if you can accept the doantion =20=

from Brazil, while we here check if we can redonate them to you
[11:26] Frederico: I really don't think the option number 2 is realistic
[11:26] ***: pablo-cl (caos@200.28.127.81) has joined the channel
[11:26] mic: i will look into # 3
[11:26] Frederico: even more if we have to pass 60 comps over the border
[11:26] ***: mic has quit IRC (Quit: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there =20=

yet?)
[11:27] ***: Paique has quit IRC (Quit: AvAlAnChE)
[11:27] ***: comfrey_afk is now known as comfrey
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[11:29] pablo-cl: crisxyz and i are from imc-chile and we need to know =20=

if there's a chance for us to receive computers
[11:30] ***: comfrey is now known as comfrey_afk
[11:30] rabble: maybe somebody could ask around and figure how much the =20=

cost would be... might make sense to ship chile it's on one meter or =20
two meter block seperate
[11:30] rabble: if they want 5 computers, that can fit in 1 meter cube =20=

which is $160 or os
[11:31] ***: Frederico has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:31] pablo-cl: i've been quite busy lately and don't know what =20
happened with the project. can you do a quick update for me, evan?
[11:32] ***: Frederico (~fred@200.158.69.102) has joined the channel
[11:33] rabble: pablo-cl uh, well, crisxyz says you guys want 6 =20
computers
[11:33] rabble: it would be hard to get them from brasil to argentina =20=

then to chile
[11:34] pablo-cl: yeah
[11:34] rabble: might make sense to ship you 5 seperately, and you guys =20=

would need to get your paperwork to get them through customs or pay =20
what ever import fees that you'd need to pay
[11:35] ***: tooorn has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:35] pablo-cl: ok. and who would be paying the $160 that sending 5 =20=

comps costs?
[11:36] rabble: good question
[11:36] rabble: you could ask imc-finance, the global south fund, raise =20=

it yourself...
[11:36] pablo-cl: how many comps are being send to brazil?
[11:37] rabble: maybe as many as 260
[11:37] rabble: there is a bunch of confusion on how many exactly
[11:37] pablo-cl: and who's paying for those? just curious
[11:39] rabble: we've received $2800 in online pay pal donations
[11:39] rabble: if you want you could choose to accept money from OSI =20=

(george soros's foundation) and the shipping can be paid for easil
[11:39] rabble: easily
[11:41] pablo-cl: well. we discussed that a long time ago, and we =20
decided to use the money from OSI. i don't know what the collective =20
will say now. plus, there are new members by now.
[11:41] a3m: "IF you want"...which some don't!
[11:42] pablo-cl: yeah, a3m.
[11:43] pablo-cl: well, i do agree in doing that. using soros' =20
foundation money.
[11:43] ivank: we have already said what we had to say about OSI, FF =20
and al that shit!!!!! i don't think
[11:44] ivank: we need to back to that
[11:44] rabble: anyway if you are willing to take OSI money for it, =20
then there is the money there, not right away, but we can use to cover =20=

shipping  costs and some training expeses, i'm trying to offer it =20
without pushing it on any
[11:44] pablo-cl: ivank todos tenemos que pensar igual al respecto? no =20=

me parece
[11:45] pablo-cl: y estamos hablando de computadores hacia chile, no =20
sobre los otros hacia brasil.
[11:45] rabble: ivank, cmi chile puden recebir una serperado embarque =20=

con la plata de OSI
[11:45] hendrix: what are those trainings expenses?
[11:45] soncho: jaja
[11:45] ***: gaba (gaba@200.40.167.44) has joined the channel
[11:45] ivank: no, respeto las poiniones de todos, seguro
[11:45] soncho: osi es lo mejor=C7?
[11:45] pablo-cl: maybe he thinks we all should do the same.
[11:45] ivank: hagan lo que quieran, muchach@s
[11:45] pablo-cl: lo haremos. no pretendemos cumplir las expectativas =20=

revolucionarias de nadie.
[11:46] ivank: (i respect your opinion for sure-; do what u wish!)
[11:46] rabble: hendrix the idea for the OSI money was half for =20
shipping and half to be used for trainings so people can use them, edit =20=

video, setup radio stations, and the like
[11:48] pablo-cl: so, what if we ask for more than 5 comps? i mean, =20
what if there's a local organization that might need computers too and =20=

we are willing to help them with that?
[11:48] rabble: provided we can get them fixed up, there seems to be =20
computers, hell there is money to ship you another couple hundred, but =20=

that would need a LOT of work on teh US end
[11:49] ***: pablo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 2416 seconds)
[11:49] pablo-cl: sure
[11:49] ***: pablo (myemail@200.183.63.28) has joined the channel
[11:50] hendrix: evan, i think most of us can teach to use a computer =20=

for free
[11:50] pablo-cl: i don't think that's for paying people to do that
[11:50] rabble: hendrix yeah but you could use the money for 'rent'
[11:50] rabble: or the net connection
[11:50] rabble: or cost of bus fare to go to some place to hold the =20
workshop
[11:51] ***: sebastian (~jirc@200.45.197.32) has joined the channel
[11:52] hendrix: if the the imc-rosario can afford all those costs, i =20=

dont see why other imc can=B4t
[11:52] hendrix: let me rephrase that
[11:52] * sebastian dice hola
[11:52] rabble: hola sebastian
[11:52] sebastian: alo
[11:53] rabble: hendrix es una cosa por cada collectivo a hacen una =20
decision
[11:53] xmux: hola sebastian
[11:53] hendrix: i dont think "half" of the money should go to training =20=

expenses
[11:53] rabble: well you don't want any of the money
[11:53] hendrix: but it comes from OSI, so i dont know why do i even =20
bother on that... :)
[11:54] xmux: hendrix: I think that's what the offer is from OSI
[11:55] hendrix: i see...
[11:56] * sebastian thinks that we need to make a project to buy a good =20=

laptop for xmux so he can donate another one to indymedia and sebastian =20=

can upload pictures and audio from santa fe :)
[11:57] rabble: for example, in Ecuador there are LOTS of groups who =20
want training in how to use the internet so they know enough to publish =20=

to indymedia, but they need money to pay for the cyber cafes to hold =20
training, and pay for a bus to get there, and the like... (yes they do =20=

get some cyber cafes to donate time, but not all )
[11:58] xmux: sebastian: what's wrong with the vaio?
[11:58] ***: ana has quit IRC (Quit: ..)
[11:58] ***: vitor has left the channel
[11:58] sebastian: xmux: your sony laptop is in santa fe with me. it's =20=

dead right now, software problem :(
[11:58] rabble: sebastian esta en santa fe? tiene una barco?
[11:58] sebastian: so i can't uopload audio and pictures
[11:59] xmux: what happened?
[11:59] * pablo is very worried that we havent yet set up the meeting- =20=

its getting fucking late
[11:59] sebastian: rabble: nop, but i have good feeling with poor =20
people, so they are bringing me to everywhere
[12:01] * sebastian dice que rabble puede venir a andar en barco con =20
nosotros si quiere
[12:02] ***: Frederico has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:02] ***: daniel has quit IRC ()
[12:02] rabble: pablo how does same time next week? it seemed to work =20=

well enough that many people were able to attend this meeting
[12:02] pablo: i guess its fine
[12:03] pablo: whats our deadline for shipping without paying an =20
additional month rent?
[12:04] * sebastian dice que de ultima se las metan en el culi=F1o
[12:04] rabble: we just pased it yesterday
[12:04] ***: carol has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out)
[12:04] rabble: it's the 14th of hte money
[12:05] ***: hendrix has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:06] rabble: i think if we aimed to ship in two weeks, then that =20
would give us a little space, i know htat the portland folks think the =20=

could get the boxes down to oakland by teh first of the month
[12:07] sebastian: bueno
[12:07] * sebastian se retira
[12:08] * sebastian promete fotos y audios cuando arregle la compu
[12:08] sebastian: ciao
[12:08] pablo: que paso, sebastian?
[12:08] sebastian: se cago la maquina que traje
[12:08] sebastian: windows xp
[12:08] sebastian: murio
[12:08] sebastian: simplemente
[12:08] sebastian: :)
[12:08] sebastian: ciao
[12:09] ***: sebastian has quit IRC (Quit:  fuck the police-use condon!)
[12:14] ivank: bueno, entonces?
[12:16] pablo: miercules/ wednesday / may mayo 15/ mismo horario same =20=

time?
[12:16] pablo: esta bien?
[12:16] pablo: mayo 21
[12:16] ***: You are now known as Erroneous
[12:16] pablo: miercules/ wednesday / may mayo 21/ mismo horario same =20=

time?
[12:16] pablo-cl: no creo que la gente de chile pueda asistir. el 21 de =20=

mayo es una fecha importante
[12:16] ***: You are now known as Erroneous_Nickname
[12:16] pablo-cl: lots of protests activities
[12:17] ***: You are now known as rabble
[12:17] pablo: thursday/ jueves / may mayo 22/ mismo horario de hoy? =20
same time as today?
[12:17] pablo: PLEASE ANSWER
[12:17] rabble: works for me
[12:18] rabble: although it sounds like chile MIGHT do their own =20
shipment, meaning we don't need to coordinate that with everybody else
[12:18] gaba: tambi=E9n para mi, intentaremos hablar en la proxima =20
reunion de indymedia aqui
[12:18] pablo-cl: yeah
[12:18] gaba: yo necesitaria un log
[12:18] gaba: de la rueni=F3n
[12:18] rabble: creo tengo
[12:18] a3m:  22nd 2400 hrs     si.
[12:19] rabble: i have a copy of the logs
[12:23] ***: pablo has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:24] ***: pablo (myemail@200.183.63.28) has joined the channel
[12:25] ***: comfrey_afk is now known as comfrey



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