[Imc-uk-process] A matter of censorship, antiwar activist and public concern - someone please unhide it

Ecovillage Network UK evnuk at gaia.org
Wed Jun 16 11:54:25 PDT 2004

A matter of censorship, antiwar activist and public concern - will someone 
please unhide it
[this is a perfect example of how the Indymedia editorial system isn't working]

There appears to be something wrong at UK Indymedia.
With the system the way it is all it takes is one garcondumonde to bring 
the entire system into disrepute.

Garcondumonde I'm gonna - tedious though it is - take apart your 
'reasoning' one by one

This story is true.

I have quoted a Labour MP as the source who confirmed there WAS an official 
news blackout in the runup to the recent elections.

You have to ask yourself the question was that blackout WHICH YOU ARE 
FOLLOWING issued to protect Kathryn or the PM?
Advisories are not issued to newspapers if joe bloggs' daughter tries to 
commit suicide.

I have put forward the MP's evidence that it is true - what evidence do you 
have that it isn't?
Because you didn't see it in the papers?  Have you called the school? the 
PM's office?

Either garcondumonde is afraid of the implications of official censorship 
to protect the image of a politican or has - like some do at Indymedia a 
personal grudge against me, the poster. In case you didn't notice - gdm - 
it was the most popular article on the wire when you pulled it!

Whatever the article must stay along with the discussion that followed it.

This censorship is not just stifling the facts its also stifling the debate 
over the facts

The suicide guidelines you quote state clearly the dangers of ignoring 
suicide - and I'd agree if the article was flippant - but its not

So,  several negative comments appear over a couple of hours and thats 
justification to pull it?

There is no justification at all here

1. for Kathryn's cry for help to have an impcat it must be heard.
2. we have a special duty to publish suicide stories when it reflects on a 
public figure
3. the reasons quoted by gdm were entirely partial and didn't take into 
account the positive comments
4. we cant even find the article using the search now
5. none of the points made by the Indymedia software writer were listened 
to and he can't take part in this debate

Instead you could have just pulled the final wrecking comment

No discussion has taken place before this has been hidden - one person has 
rounded up all the precarious comments supporting censorship and decided, 
for themselves, to hide it.

So will someone please unhide it ASAP as a legitimate matter of both 
antiwar activist and public concern.

Tony Gosling
0117 944 6219

MY GOD how you have to fight for the truth to be heard these days!
You can tell there's a war on when even Indymedia is censoring stories to 
protect Blair's image.
Don;'t submit to this Rule By Secrecy

Re: [Imc-uk-features] [article:293456] infactual? and... CONFIRM!! :-)

"garcondumonde" <gdm at fifthhorseman.net>

Wed, June 16, 2004 12:31 pm

tony at resourceforge.net


View Full Header | View Printable Version

tony -

hidden your article, reasons why below in email sent to imc-uk-features
and cc'd to you at gaia.




i've read through this post and all the comments (there are a number
subsequent to ekes' comment).

the majority are in favour of NOT hiding the article.

i have hidden it.

Why?? there are a number of reasons. i will post a short comment under the
article linking to this email as well....

1. firstly, i agree with the comment ekes made about mental health problems:

 > There is a __serious__ issue around mental health, schools and exam
stresses. This article fails to highlight these issues because it names
individuals. Reporting, and campaigning, must highlight the many people
involved and doesn't need names.

teenagers are under an enormous amount of stress that is often
unrecognised. adolescent girls are pretty much at the peak of the iceberg
in terms of numbers of attempted suicide: they do it more than anybody
else (although fortunately they are less successful than their male

2. there appears - from comments posted under the article and from surfing
various other BBs found thru google.co.uk - to be some variance in the
details around the story. it is not entirely clear what happened when, and
the story is merely attributed to "my sources" - hardly a descriptive
account of what role/credibility those people may have.

3. kathryn blair has already been found involved in disputes over stories
about her in the press:

"39.   Blair MP v Mail on Sunday (Report 47, 1999)"

"...the Commission noted the Code's responsibility to protect vulnerable
children. In this case, it considered that Kathryn would start school at
the centre of a row over the validity of her admission and felt that the
story therefore had significantly affected her welfare at a particularly
crucial time....

it considered that the article was in breach of Clause 1 (Accuracy) of the
Code of Practice. It therefore followed that, because the article was
misleading, there could be no public interest in its contents. The breach
of Clause 1 necessarily would demonstrate a breach of Clause 6 (Children)
in that untrue allegations connected to a child would automatically harm
her welfare and obviate the public interest defence. The Commission—in
line with the precedents set out in Section 1—also noted the extent to
which Mr and Mrs Blair had gone to protect the privacy of their daughter."

i think this is an interesting reference because it, legitimately, raises
questions about press adherence to a voluntary code of conduct (please
correct me if i am wrong about any of the details: i am neither a lawyer
nor a journalist!) regarding personal privacy - including the privacy of a
child - in a public arena. there are implications for indymedia, too...

by following the logic presented in this quote (and the full reference,
which is only a few lines longer), i think that the article should be
hidden: there is not enough evidence that it is correct and i think that
the article could be more damaging.

[nb. a medical definition of childhood in the uk includes all those under
the age of 16 and those up to the age of 18 who remain in full-time

My suggestion would be that the article is perhaps re-written, anonymising
the name of the child (although i would agree that the public interest may
be served best by stating "there are rumours that one of tony blair's
children attempted suicide last month" or something similar) in order that
this important aspect of our society can be highlighted.

i note that the article is printed in full on tony gosling's own website,
The All Seeing Eye - http://www.public-interest.co.uk/aseye/index.htm and
i am not trying to suggest that that should be changed as i have no place
to do so. i do find, however, that it is interesting that one of the links
from the article on that website is to "Ethical guidance on the reporting
of suicide" - http://www.presswise.org.uk/display_page.php?id=166

from there, i quickly reached guidelines which talked about "suicide
contagion" and also raised as a concern the fact that,

"Using adolescents on TV or in print media to tell the stories of their
suicide attempts may be harmful to the adolescents themselves or may
encourage other vulnerable young people to seek attention in this way."

i finish with another quote from ekes:

 > We want to change things, for the better. Lets tackle issues of mental
health properly. Lets not point fingers at people without talking to
them. Lets involve people in changing things.

love & solidarity,


nb. i would like to remind everyone that no article is removed from
www.indymedia.org.uk - they are all visible by following the 'view all
posts' link which can be found on the editorial guidelines page,

At 08:45 PM 6/15/04 +0100, you wrote:

>I agreew ith what ionnek says - but also think this brings up the old
>issue of acyively linking to other sites - something we don't do
>enough of. I know this can take Indy close to the edges of endorsing
>a tight political line, which doesn't help the site - but i do think
>we need to think about what national links we could promote and what
>local links we could add on the sites.
>If no-one has any problems with this maybe we could start compiling a list.
>cheers tony
>At 10:39 +0100 11/06/04, ionnek wrote:
> >Hi, rkn and all,
> >
> >thanks for your mail about forums. Since enrager first started, I have
> >been very happy about these forums, for precisely the reasons you
> >mention, and i sometimes tried to direct people from the newswire to
> >enrager. The indymedia concept and the technology we use really is not
> >very suitable for discussions, imho we aim for "reports from the
> >streets" rather than proper debate. Indymedia is a reporting tool rather
> >than a debating or organising platform. I would like to think about ways
> >to direct people who obviously want to discuss on the indymedia newswire
> >to the enrager threads, and other forums as well, depending on content.
> >Brainstorm: One way to do this would be to post reports about
> >interesting threads on enrager on the indymedia newswire and include the
> >link. People who are discussing a topic on enrager are generating a lot
> >of knowledge. Maybe, when a debate becomes "saturated", people could
> >work together on a text, to share this knowledge on indymedia, either as
> >a posting on the newswire or as a feature proposal? I say this because
> >in my view, debates and knowledge production are part of the daily
> >practice of activism, they always happen for a specific reason, a need
> >in one moment in time, therefore I would consider them as news. Or post
> >enrager links as comments under the newswire postings you find
> >interesting for a particular thread?
> >What do you think?
> >
> >best
> >ionnek
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Imc-uk-process mailing list
> >Imc-uk-process at lists.indymedia.org
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-process
>Imc-uk-process mailing list
>Imc-uk-process at lists.indymedia.org

EcoVillage Network UK PeopleFinder - http://www.peoplefinder.org.uk
A new contact point for getting involved in the UK EcoVillage movement.

EVN-UK MAILING LIST: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ecovillageuk
Subscribe (approx. 1 post/2wks.): ecovillageuk-subscribe at yahoogroups.com

CHAPTER 7 - http://www.tlio.org.uk/chapter7/
The UK's Rural Sustainable Settlement Planning Campaign
'Chapter 7 News' - 16-20pp. quarterly - £2.00 ea. £7.00 per annum sub. from
The Potato Store, Flaxdrayton Farm, South Petherton, Somerset, TA13
chapter7 at tlio.demon.co.uk
Tel. 01460 249204

ECOVILLAGE GUIDE BOOKS - available (postage included) from 
Mulberry House, 19 Maple Grove, Bath, BA2 3AF - 01225 484472
UK > 'Diggers and Dreamers' - Annual directory of UK Communities - £6.00
EUROPE > 'Eurotopia' - Directory of Intentional Communities and Ecovillages 
in Europe - £15.00
COTTARS AND SQUATTERS > Reccommended: UK land rights history - £10.00

PERMACULTURE MAGAZINE - http://www.permaculture.co.uk/
Quarterly colour mag. for enquiring minds and original thinkers everywhere.
Hyden House Ltd, The Sustainability Centre, East Meon, Hampshire GU32 1HR, 
info at permaculture.co.uk
Tel. 01730 823311

ECOVILLAGE NETWORK UK (that's us!) - http://www.evnujk.org.uk
Populating the rhetoric of rural sustainability
Volunteers: Russ Curgenven, Tony Gosling, Pam Norris, Joyce Kallevick.
PO Box 1410, Bristol, BS99 3JP
Tel. 0117 373 0346
evnuk at gaia.org

DIGGERS AND DREAMERS - Searchable community database 
Diggers & Dreamers, a UK guide to communal living for more than 10 years
c/o Edge of Time Ltd, BCM Edge, London, WC1N 3XX, UK
info at diggersanddreamers.org.uk
Tel. 07000 780536

WWOOF - http://www.wwoof.org/wuk0.html
Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms
Join WWOOF, do some work, stay for free. Membership includes directory
PO Box 2675, Lewes, Sussex, BN7 1RB
fran at wwoof.org

PERMACULTURE ASSOCIATION UK - http://www.permaculture.org.uk
Supports individuals, projects and groups working with permaculture in Britain
Third Floor Studios, 6 Carr Mills, 322 Meanwood Road, Leeds, West 
Yorkshire, LS7 2HY
office at permaculture.org.uk
Tel/Fax: 07041 390170 and 0113 262 1718

GROUNDSWELL - http://www.groundswell.org.uk
Promoting and developing self-help initiatives with the homeless

U.K. COHOUSING NETWORK - http://www.cohousing.co.uk/
Sharing expertise and experience amongst the U.K. cohousing groups.

FOREST SCHOOL CAMPS - http://www.fsc.org.uk/about.htm
Camps for kids to get back to nature with the minimum of authority.

EUROPEAN FUNDING - http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/funding/intro_en.htm

Rosa-Luxemburgstr. 89, D-14806 Belzig, Germany - info at gen-europe.org - 0049 
33841 44766
Ecovillage Office, Findhorn, The Park, Forres, Moray, Scotland IV36 0TZ - 
ecovillage at findhorn.org - +44 (0)1309 690154
Minutes of meetings 
European email list - post <euevforum at lists.gen-europe.org> - 
contact  webmaster at gen-europe.org

Download free & easy to use PGP encryption at http://www.pgpi.com

More information about the Imc-uk-process mailing list