[New-imc] Re: refining the new imc process - some comments

Fri Dec 20 05:30:08 PST 2002

I totally agree with Matthew. But I thought in a way this is what we are 
doing or at least what some of us are doing. The problem seems to be more 
that it is not clear or maybe there is also disagreement. 

To give an example, this is what happend in Beirut earlier this year: When I 
got there, the group had been told (or at least that is what they told me), 
that they first needed to get their group working together, go through the 
process and then think about the website. Well, this was 1. kind of 
confusing for them, because they already had a group and it somehow seemed 
like more was expected of them but they didn't know what exactly, 2. to go 
through the process without doing any practical work at the same time seemed 
kind of odd as well. I actually think the result may be a disfuncional group 
structure for what people will eventually have to do. The ones who are more 
interested in practical work will leave in the process of endless 
discussions while only the ones who like discussing stay. Then in a next 
step when all the discussions are finished the work on the website starts, 
which only interests the techies, so again you may be loosing some people. 

So I told the group that they could go ahead with working on the webpage and 
I would see that they get help from some of my techie friends at the german 
indymedia before they had finished the process. A couple weeks later I met 
blicero and he told me that I had been exactly right in my advice, and he 
himself didn't know why some people were of the opinion that the work on the 
website should come last. 

But this is how it is listed in the steps of the process for new-imc's. 
There is also one other thing I never understood: Why first fill out the 
application form, which includes writing a mission statement and then 3 
steps later the membership criteria, editorial policy etc.. Why not tell 
people in one step: "You need to discuss a whole lot of things, these are 
the documents you must submit to get approved:..." 

in solidarity
blue 

> blast from the past, but i think it's worth revisiting. 
> 
> comments from matthew with sydney imc and cat, the tech collective that 
> wrote the active code that runs alot of indymedia.... 
> 
>> 
>>> there was one kind of important imc thing that i was hoping to chat with
>>> both of you about, after various discussions with some australian
>>> indymedia people. 
>>> 
>>> it's about introducing new indymedia centres to the network. 
>>> 
>>> i would like to suggest a slight refinement of the process (although 
>>> maybe
>>> you've already done this). 
>>> 
>>> ... 
>>> 
>>> 1. when people first ask us about becoming indymedia centres, i think we
>>> should make it very clear that they can go ahead and get started doing
>>> whatever things their local group things is appropriate. 
>>> 
>>> 2. if they can get their own server setup, great! 
>>> 
>>> 3. if they can get access to share one of the existing servers, that's
>>> great too! although of course each server collective will have some way 
>>> of
>>> deciding whether they want to host a new city, to do with their own 
>>> level
>>> of resources and how they perceive the new city's needs and methods. 
>>> 
>>> 4. if they want to use existing software, we can point them to the 
>>> various
>>> copyleft indymedia softwares out there. if they want to code their own,
>>> great! 
>>> 
>>> 5. if they want advice on what methods of organising work for existing
>>> indymedia centres, then we can point them to resources on that. 
>>> 
>>> 6. if they want to use the indymedia name, and especially if they want 
>>> to
>>> be linked from the indymedia network and have cityname.indymedia.org,
>>> *then* that's when they need to confirm they are aware of whatever
>>> definitions that parts of the network have managed to come up with of 
>>> just
>>> what indymedia means: open publishing, principles of unity, etc. 
>>> 
>>> 7. and finally we need to ask them, please do keep in the communication
>>> loop, and here's how we're trying to do network communication at the
>>> moment. 
>>> 
>>> ... 
>>> 
>>> sheri and i were talking just before i left about the need to educate 
>>> new
>>> people when they join indymedia collectives. and about how important it 
>>> is
>>> not to drown beginners in information. 
>>> 
>>> i think the same applies to new indymedia centres, and it's especially
>>> important to keep the information flow under control when the new people
>>> joining don't have english as a native language. 
>>> 
>>> it's something i have seen happen several times in my community media
>>> past, where people are very interested in a project, and the response is
>>> an enthusiastic flood of info, and the new people feel overwhelmed and
>>> effectively disconnect from the project. doesn't matter how many emails 
>>> or
>>> phone messages you leave, they're wiped out. meeting face to face might
>>> help, but that's not always easy to do. 
>>> 
>>> so i hope we can all be strategic in our process of helping new
>>> collectives become part of this powerful network. 
>>> 
>>> ... 
>>> 
>>> anyway i think that's the guts of it. from stuff i've been hearing from
>>> you and others, there is an awareness of parts of this atleast, and a 
>>> lot
>>> of this is already what is happening. but perhaps parts of it need to be
>>> more explicit. 
>>> 
>>> my perception of what happened with jakarta is that they wanted to start
>>> up in time for mayday 2001. now stallman was not ready to take on new
>>> cities, but if there had been more explicit awareness of point (1) 
>>> above,
>>> then it's quite possible an australian server would have jumped in to 
>>> help
>>> - which is what ended up happening months later anyway. 
>>> 
>>> and if there were good mayday stories on jakarta's site, then some of 
>>> them
>>> would probably get linked as stories from australian (and other) imc's. 
>>> 
>>> (there could even be a list somewhere of indymedia-style sites that 
>>> aren't
>>> yet full network members - we could call them openmedia or freemedia or
>>> something.) 
>>> 
>>> and then as jakarta learnt by doing, and as they wanted to get linked 
>>> from
>>> the sidebar, we could have then dealt with the network issues (perhaps
>>> including evolution of those ideas to deal with the different cultual 
>>> and
>>> political situation in jakarta). meanwhile though, local people in 
>>> jakarta
>>> would be using indymedia ideas and technology to make media as much as
>>> they find it useful and creative to do so, which is one of the most
>>> important things. 
>>> 
>>> i think network solidarity and common ground is very important. i also
>>> think that we need to be careful not to give the impression that local
>>> groups need to stop making media while they go through the process of
>>> joining the network. i think with ideas like the above we can have both. 
>>> 
>>> ... 
>>> 
>>> i am almost completely ignorant about the new-imc process: what i know 
>>> is
>>> from the very early days of the new-imc list, plus various no doubt 
>>> dodgy
>>> second-hand reports. my apologies for that. 
>>> 
>>> please do with these ideas what you will. no obligations -- 
>>> fundamentally
>>> because i am not an active member of the indymedia network, it is up to
>>> people who are active to decide whether they wish to take up the 
>>> network's
>>> time with my ramblings. 
>>> 
>>> cheers,
>>> m.
>>  
>> 
>> --
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>  
> 
> --  
> 
> 
> In sum, we are an army of dreamers, and therefore invincible.  How can we 
> fail to win, with this imagination overturning everything.  
> 
> -- Subcomandante Marcos 
> 
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