[New-imc] winnipeg comments

[Geoffrey Young]

uh.i guess im supposed to comment now.
to begin with, there is no sarcasm in this message
I would first off like to acknowledge all the amateur (ok, possibly
professional) psychologists. I did not know i was that interesting a person
and am flattered by the attention (though a little uncomfortable). let me
respond

-IMHO, Geoffrey is extremely enthusiastic and expresses things in a
-very "poetic" style and leaves it up to others to tidy things up in
-terms of conventional, boring logic. Well, we're all different, and
-for the Winnipeg IMC to take off, the enthusiasts like Geoffrey are
-going to need to match up with the tidyers. This is not just for
-new-imc, it's also for a practical IMC, I don't think an IMC can be
-pure enthusiasm without anyone to neaten things up - though of course
-the opposite is also true!
-Please do not take this as a criticism of people who are gung ho and
-bored with conventional (even fuzzy) logic - but IMHO we do need a 
-synthesis between the different styles.


thanks. as a writer i find this to be one of the biggest compliments i've
recieved in a while.
especially he part about conventional logic being "fuzzy". You are not the
first person to point out that I am (as my mom says) "different" and not
necessarily well planted. 
I moved to Winnipeg about a month and a half ago. when active with
ontario/toronto/ottawa imc's i usually had Kevin Smith to act as this
filter or as you say tidyer.  In the Toronto collective specifically I had
several such filters.
I completely agree that they are often helpful.
Now I dont yet know the peg folks extremely well yet. however I assure you
that I am surrounded with responsible filters such as one of the guys that
helps run g7, a station manager for CKUW, managing editor from Manitoban
etc...
I am mainly providing the drive and excess enthusiasm. I came here and
immediately set out on imc which has helped me find these folks. Since none
had much imc experience, I sort of ended up being the contact person. I
agree that I am not necessarily a natural in the business type dealings.
I assure you that this will change once everything is straightened out and
we will get a more appropriate person to do the job im currently doing. but
for now we're stuck with me.

now for some more serious issue related resoponses:

the comment relating to 911 is wankery and not worthy of response except to
say it seemed rather ill intentioned coming from somebody ive hardly ever
communicated with. this guy took my messages far too literally and seems to
prefer a form letter to personal response in a spoken voice.

the mailing list is imc-winnipeg at lists.indymedia.org. it is not listed on
the site for security related reasons. It has been circulating via word of
mouth and appearances at media jam, ckuw etc... we are trying to keep as
low key as possible for now. how we have agreed to go about this is
slightly different from what youz folks seem to picture due to localized
circumstances which i will xplain.
we have assembled a core of about ten folks who were initial respondants to
my initial spreading the news around town. They form what is essentially a
monopoly on local independant media with station manager, managing editor,
record label, publisher etc... We have met and talked about the principles
and stuff, sent said email off, filled out said form. 
Due to localized sittuation and the fact that summit planning has started
we are limiting exposure until the site is up thus the deciasion with the
mailing list.
indymedia seems to be under the impression that it is known by all and that
folks will drop what they are doing to be part. this is not the case in
winnipeg. in order to draw representatives from all the local groups, we
need the site to refer them to. If we just go around saying we're doing
this indymedia thing etc... the folks will only want to see the site or say
"come bug us when its up and running". 
once the site is up, we will hold large, publicized, public infosessions
which will include site demonstrations. we are going to contact each group
induvidually with an email and then a visit to make sure that every
concievable organization has somebody attending the infosessions. this will
cause our numbers to swell drastically. at the infosessions we will also
solicit active imc volunteers.
if we were to embark on outreach before the site is up, it would only risk
making us look like we're full of shit. the plan is that once the
infosession volunteers come forward, the imc will take on a life of its own
outside any of us and we will just keep it up and running and add content.
Initially, the features section will be done by the core group, however,
once the group grows,we will establish policy on the feature. hopefully the
feature will either be open publishing or a hybrid of open and
editorial-based publishing. once this is achieved, this core group will
only be espacially active in a time of crisis or event.

any "rules" will be filled in by the core group initially and then
completely changed or thrown away as is necessitated by the experience of
the imc. We are hoping this thing grows naturally. the rules will become
apparent as any problems surface and will be adressed when they become an
issue. Any extra/superflous rules made in attempt to avoid said "issues" or
"problems" could very well end up limiting the natural growth potential of
the organization as individual entity. We expect it to be larger than the
sum of the volunteers so that it will continue, on its own, no matter who
joins/leaves the project thus ensuring maximum potential for long term
survival.

the criticism of my use of the term anarchist is a little on the miserly
side. once again, this is a writing style issue. Let me clarify that the
individuals political belief are of no interest to me whatsoever. I meant
"anarchist" as a more spirited way of saying activist types. once again,
writing style. youz folks gotta relax.

-the even more subjective, human element of judging that a
-constructive, practical, trust relationship between the new IMC and
-the rest of the network is on its way

wow! I tell ya what. I wont repeat that comment to anybody. this reminds me
of the "frivolous and vexatious" clause in the freedom of information which
esentially means that the final criteria for having a foi request granted
is "whether or not we like you". It sounds like how they pick the supreme
court in the states.  It suggests that a more than a little conformity of
personality and manner is necessary to be accepted. it is dealing with
intangibilities and only seems to be a way of saying that there are
limitations on the sort of folk who can help or form an imc.
I happen to have a lawyer reading over my shoulder who interprets the above
comment as a claim that the imc process includes the subjective opinion of
a small group deciding who passes said process. 
i agree that this is implied by the statement but I am sure that this is
NOT the case with imc.

I am surprised at just how confrontational this process has become. I am
very sorry for any hurt feelings but as it is, i was not adquately informed
of exactly what was to happen and it was never really made clear exactly
what this process was. I was told to expect "packages" i never got.

so far my involvemnt with indymedia which began at the republican
convention in philly and has included, ontario/toronto, ottawa and quebec
has been smooth sailing and clear of problems for the most part. never have
I had to face judgment direct or implied of my character. I assume this is
not the norm here either as i have contact with several of these new-imc
folks which has not been near as confrontational as the comment of one
boud. 

i am not one to engage in dailogue of voting vs concensus or whatever. In
any endeavour I pursue, I automatically assume that everyone is going to
have a say if they want. I would not allow anything else.  thus, in my
personal view, the proper name for pre-existing processes is pretty much
semantics. and dangerous, democratic bla bla bla 

At this point, we are re-doing our submission as there is now twice the
initial core group. i will submit this on tuesday night.

now that i see imc has come around a little on the zimbabwe thing i no
longer need to comment. if you wish proof of any of my activity on the
list, talk to the zimbabwe guy. I have also been particularly active in the
imc jerusalem dialogue.

I really hope that this process can be made a little easier on all
involved. I do not see any reason to be confrontational whatsoever,
especially when common ground is quite obvious. I reallly hope the working
relationship between myself and the group, which seems to be lacking can
somehow be improved and even rendered enjoyable.
i guess thats about it
thanks
geoffrey

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