[New-imc] [en][fr] V0.01 PROPOSAL for only collective blocks of new IMCs

[Jay]

I agree that this proposal, once cleared through the new-imc working group, 
should really find its home for main discussion on imc-process.

Jay

At 4/26/2003, boud wrote:
>hi everyone,
>
># SUMMARY
># [en] comments
># [fr] commentaires
># [en] V0.01 new-imc PROPOSAL for only collective blocks of new IMCs
># [fr] V0.01 new-imc PROPOSITION - blocages uniquement collectifs des IMCs
>nouveaux
>
>
>[en]
>    This is just a first draft.
>
>    i don't think we in new-imc have the right to decide ourselves on
>making a major change in new-imc process, especially when it's about
>decision-making at imc-process (even though it's a special case)!
>However, i do think we have the right to consense internally on a
>proposal (3-day deadline after we think we've converged), and then
>post that to imc-process.
>
>   IMHO, it should be easy to obtain consensus on (1) - no local IMC
>has objected to IMC Italy's proposal, AFAIK.
>
>Questions:
>** (2) delay of 14 days? **
>The delay (2) would be a bit more difficult, but if people active on
>new-imc could ask their local IMCs what they think during the stage of
>preparing the proposal, chances are we'd come up with a delay which
>has a reasonable chance of being accepted by the full network. If the
>initial reactions to this version are OK on new-imc, i'll ask IMC PL
>in the next few days.
>
>However, each local IMC is supposed to have a liaison on imc-process,
>and there are plenty of communications methods possible to have early
>alerts to new IMC applications - and a local IMC which really feels it
>might sometime have to block a new IMC should be willing to provide a
>volunteer who does the work on new IMC of really helping new groups -
>not just making general abstract, Gödel's-theorem-like comments.
>
>** decision on this **
>  A month seems to be a reasonable delay - set by the precedent of
>the IMC Italy proposal. Should it be discussed on imc-process or new-imc?
>IMHO, it should be imc-process, so that it's more of an imc-process
>decision and not a new-imc decision.
>
>[fr]
>  Il y a un premier brouillon d'une proposition ci-dessous.
>
>  Y-a-t-il eu des réponses des IMCs francophone sur la proposition d'IMC
>Italie ? En tous les cas, je n'ai pas vu d'opposition...
>
>** Il serait bien de voir avec nos IMCs locaux quel serait un délai
>raisonnable sur imc-process pour que les blocages puissent uniquement
>être fait par les collectifs et non par les gens.
>
>** Un mois sur imc-process me semble une façon raisonnable d'y décider.
>
>solidarité
>boud
>
>
>###### V0.01 new-imc PROPOSAL for only collective blocks of new IMCs #####
>
>### [en] V0.01 new-imc PROPOSAL for only collective blocks of new IMCs ###
>
>PROPOSAL:
>  In the spirit of IMC Italy's proposal:
>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-process/2003-March/004656.html
>it is proposed that:
>(1) A block on imc-process against approval of a proposed new IMC can
>only be made by a local IMC which is already an approved IMC, and
>not by an individual.
>(2) The delay for a block of a new IMC on imc-process is 14 days.
>
>DECISION:
>  To all local IMC liaisons: please post any concerns (or possibly
>blocks), consensed by your local IMC, on imc-process by [date + 1
>month to be inserted].
>
>BACKGROUND:
>  The Indymedia network decision on approving a proposed new IMC
>presently happens on imc-process by a consensus process with a
>proposal + deadline of 7 days (after going through guidance and
>internal approval by the new-imc working group - see
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo and
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowHelpUs for more info
>for collectives and new-imc volunteers respectively.)
>
>  Although we fully respect the right of individuals to dissent, each
>local IMC already has some sort of consensus decision-making process,
>with a direct, participatory democratic process that is transparent to
>its membership. If this is not the case, then the individual is
>welcome to work on conflict resolution in his/her local IMC:
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ConflictResolution
>
>  The delay (2) is extended to 14 days in order to give a reasonable
>delay to any local IMC who wishes to locally discuss an application
>and locally consense on a constructive explanation of its concerns,
>and then post this to imc-process, or if there really is a fundamental
>objection, to post a block. Constructive, non-blocking concerns - or
>lists of suggestions - consensed by a local IMC and posted to
>imc-process might provide a useful complement to the work by
>individuals in the new-imc working group, and might also help develop
>horizontal local IMC - local IMC relationships.
>
>### [fr] V0.01 new-imc PROPOSITION - blocages uniquement collectifs des IMCs
>nouveaux ###
>
>PROPOSITION :
>  Dans l'esprit de la proposition d'IMC Italie :
>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-process/2003-March/004656.html
>il est proposé :
>(1) Qu'un blocage sur imc-process contre la reconnaissance d'un nouveau IMC
>proposé puisse uniquement être fait par un IMC local qui est déjà
>reconnu, et non par des individus.
>(2) Que le délai pour blocage éventuel d'un IMC nouveau soit 14 jours.
>
>DÉCISION:
>  À tout-e liaison d'IMC local : veuilles envoyer les soucis (ou
>éventuellement un blocage), consensés par ton IMC local, sur
>imc-process, avant le [date + 1 mois à insérer].
>
>CONTEXTE :
>  La décision du réseau Indymédia sur la reconnaissance d'un nouveau
>collectif IMC se passe actuellement sur imc-process par un processus
>de consensus, avec une proposition et une date limite correspondant
>à un délai de 7 jours (suite à l'aide et l'acceptance interne du groupe
>de travail new-imc - voir
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo et
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowHelpUs pour plus d'info
>pour les collectifs et les bénévoles new-imc respectivement.)
>
>  Quoique nous respectons entièrement le droit des individus de s'opposer,
>tout IMC local a déjà un processus consensuel de prise de décisions
>quelconque, selon une méthode directe, participative et démocratique,
>radicalement transparent aux membres. Dans le cas contraire, l'individu
>est prié-e de travailler sur la résolution de conflit dans son IMC local:
>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ConflictResolution
>
>  Le délai (2) est étendu à 14 jours à fin qu'il soit suffisant pour
>qu'un IMC local puisse, s'il le souhaite, discuter localement une
>demande et prendre une décision consensuelle locale sur une
>explication constructive de ses soucis, et la poster sur
>imc-process, ou s'il y a vraiment une inquiétude de fond, de faire
>blocage. Des soucis non-bloquants expliqués de façon constructive - ou
>des listes de suggestions - consensés par un IMC local et envoyés sur
>imc-process fourniraient peut-être un complément utile au travail des
>individus dans le groupe de travail new-imc, et aideraient éventuellement
>à développer les relations horizontaux entre IMC locaux.
>
>##########################################################################
>
>
>On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Jay wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > A few days ago there was an idea raised on this list to clarify our policy
> > about what has to happen for an IMC to be blocked.  Can any individual 
> from
> > the network block an IMC?  Or, should we make a clear policy that only an
> > IMC should be able to put up a block?
> >
> > I do think the latter makes sense, and would support it.  I certainly 
> think
> > individuals throughout the network should always be able to make their
> > dissent heard, through all of the communication mechanisms we have.  Also,
> > as in the case of the Rogue IMC, any individual's own block can, and
> > should, cause serious reevaluation of a new-imc's application.  Perhaps we
> > could write that explicitly into any proposal.  But, we do have over 100
> > IMCs in the network, and I think if none of them feels strongly enough 
> as a
> > group to block a new IMC from joining the network, we should defer to that
> > judgement.
> >
> > Anyone up for putting together language of a proposal to that end?  Or,
> > perhaps that language has already appeared somewhere on this list over the
> > last couple weeks?
> >
> > Jay
>
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