[New-imc]

[tuc2002 at fastmail.fm]

Dear lize and other listmembers,

Let me clarify some issues, to know where we all stand.

Of course, I agree with your comments on the PTB-dominated IMC-Belgium. I
personally don't know of many people and organisations that still support
IMC-Belgium (and are not satellites of the PTB). I, too, felt like a
'diversity excuse' when wanting to be involved in IMC.be (even when
actively trying to install diversity I felt like legitimising the
situation).

IMC-Vlaanderen is indeed a group of people (already bigger and more
diverse than IMC-Belgium when things weren't discussed in public) that
wants to leave all these problems behind and work on a healthy IMC and
cooperation between IMC's in Belgium. You know some of us rather well
Lize, and you know what these people stand for. For the others, like me,
you'll have to find out in the future. Just like everybody does when
meeting new people I guess.

You referred to the discussions on the forum on our testsite
http://pingpong.piexie.net/. 

First of all, this is an open forum. The views of people on that forum
are personal views, not views of the collective. We have to be honest in
these things (you know the pros and cons of for a – and the explosivity
of internet debates).

Second, we indeed want all these problems to be over with. We don't lie
about this. We want diversity, democracy and pluralism and therefore we
wanted a new IMC. We've been trying for years to make a pluralist and
positive IMC out of belgium.indymedia.org, but it didn't work. Therefore,
people want to start IMC-Vlaanderen.
So I guess you're right that a lot of us want to see an end to the
existing Belgium IMC, for being non-democratic, non-pluralist, etc. I
don't think it's bad to end such practices. All that we did in the past
years tells even more: we wanted to end it, but we didn't want to end it
with fights.
Now, two weeks ago a proposal was made by IMC-Liège and IMC-wvl. It
called to discontinue superregional IMC's (meaning IMC-Vlaanderen and
IMC-Belgium) and to set up a portal website that would gather all local
IMC's. Something completely new for a lot of us. But hey, it solved our
problem (undemocratic and non-pluralist IMC's). So we started discussing
the proposal.
On thing about the proposal is clear: we don't think IMC-Belgium will
like it. Some people might like it (those who feel like being a diversity
excuse), but probably not the people from the PTB. And they decide in the
first place what happens with IMC-Belgium (not you, I'm afraid).
This being said, we don't want to implement the proposal if it is
implemented as far as 3 out of 4 IMC's is concerned and not implemented
for the IMC that constitutes the reason why we are going through all this
in the first place. If it wasn't for the problems with IMC-Belgium, none
of all these discussions needed to take place.
In other words, we (and I suppose the people from IMC-Wvl and IMC-Liège
too) are dealing with this proposal in order to solve the existing
problems. If IMC-Belgium does not cease to exist, of course the proposal
is null and void, because it wouldn't solve the problem.

So: the people on the forum were discussing what to do with the proposal
of the two local IMC's. You were referring to the discussions we had
about the situation wherein we would retreat from the new-IMC process in
order to implement the proposal, but IMC-Belgium would continue to exist.

And in that respect IMC-Belgium needs to be dissolved before the proposal
can be implemented. That was what we were discussing. We just want an end
to the undemocratic practices at the IMC-Belgium level, and we want it as
hard as IMC-wvl en -Liège want it.

If it is clear that the problems with IMC-Belgium can not be solved this
way, then we continue with making alternatives for it. And I hope to
cooperate with IMC-Wvl and –Liège while doing this.

"They even think about
withdrawing their proposal to become a new imc.vl if the imc.be
collective could be "purified", which means : they take over and throw
the ptb members out of the imc.be collective. "

You should read what is written on the forum: we are thinking about
withdrawing our proposal for an IMC-Vlaanderen, if we can implement the
portal-proposal. In that proposal, a portal website will be put in place
of IMC-Belgium. We are not going to "take something over" if that
"something" doesn't exist anymore.

Concerning the "purification" of IMC-Belgium: if you want a pluralist IMC
(like we do) than you'll have to accept PTB-members in your collective.
So if you're suggesting that we don't want to have PTB-members in our
collective, you're wrong.
Now, I think everybody involved in IMC (apart from the Crickx-group at
IMC-Belgium - some six people of the PTB) has asked him- of herself the
question if he/she could still cooperate with the people from the
Crickx-group. After all these troubles, fights, accusations and
propaganda, I think it is not really surprising that indiciduals don't
want to deal with any of these people in the future. That is their
PERSONAL opinion (and I confess: I understand it).
Personnaly, I could cooperate with anyone in the future. As long as we
work in respect to the IMC principles and philosophy. I don't think I
should work together with people not supporting these principles and
trying to impose their agenda through IMC's. If people work in a positive
and correct way in all IMC collectives, I personally wouldn't have a
problem with people from the PTB or even the six from the Crickx-group in
any future IMC.

Gosh, I don't think I ask to much, do I?

"At imc.vl there is simply no door for ptb-linked people. Ptb-members in
their eyes seem to be '(the axis of ?)evil' and they want to 'purify'
Indymedia from ptb presence."
Again: not true. Without hidden agenda's and undemocratic practices,
everything is possible. PTB-members are not evil (gosh, I have personal
relationships with some low-ranking members, though I'm an anarchist
myself). People with hidden agenda's and opposed to pluralism do indeed
form an "axis-of-somewhat-more-evil-than-others". I hope anyone involved
in Indymedia agrees on that one.

Conclusion: we should leave words like "purifying", etc. out of the
debate. They distort any serious discussion, in particular any discussion
that is going to be difficult and hard anyway. This counts for both
parties. We are no better than you are. Especially because I know that
you care about the IMC-philosophy and you want things to be right.

Hopefully we can work together soon,
best regards,

TUc






Hi all,


I am lize and I am working since a year as an edito member of imc.be. I
made some reportages (sometimes together with other imc members) about
ESF Florence, about the repression of the movement in italy and I
followed up the Iraq war, the G8 of Evian and some international issues
like the situation in Argentina and Venezuela. 

I would like to give my opinion on the terrible discussion going on now
about the imc's in Belgium.

 

First. ** About IMC Belgium **

There are some true problems at imc.be. Diversity in the collective is
lacking and hence the coverage of all actions of the Belgian diverse
movement against globalization. The presence of people linked to the
Belgian communist party (ptb) in the collective is dominant and other
members of the .be collective - like myself - often feel as a kind of
'diversity' excuse to cover up the ptb dominance.

 

Second. ** About proposed new IMC Vlaanderen **

The IMC.vl people seemed to turn their endless criticism on IMC.be into
a positive project by starting to become imc activists themselves. 

My enthusiasm for these newcomers is reducing rapidly when I read their
discussion list at the test <http://pingpong.piexie.net/>  site :
instead of building up imc teams and start covering, all energy goes to
what seems to be there main objective : dissolve the present imc.be
collective. Horrible words like "purifying" ("cleansing?") are used.
They also write that "the dissolution of imc.be has always been part of
'their plan' ".I don't think the aim of putting up a new Imc could be to
destroy another one. But it goes further. They even think about
withdrawing their proposal to become a new imc.vl if the imc.be
collective could be "purified", which means : they take over and throw
the ptb members out of the imc.be collective. 

 

** My conclusion **

At imc.be it was always (and still is) very difficult to get (and stay)
involved as a non-ptb member. One quickly feels isolated as there is a
lack of democratic decision making. But the door to other groups is
still open at the imc.be collective, and could solve the problem of ptb
dominance.

At imc.vl there is simply no door for ptb-linked people. Ptb-members in
their eyes seem to be '(the axis of ?)evil' and they want to 'purify'
Indymedia from ptb presence. This can not be tolerated. The ptb is part
of the movement, and at Indymedia, that's it's place : part of. Not to
be dominant, but surely not to be 'purified' neither.

 

** My  proposal **

As both 'collectives' refuse to work together, I think an additional
imc.vl site might be the best solution to get more people involved into
Indymedia making in Belgium. There are not a lot of different
independent media channels in belgium, so the more media-activists, the
better I think. 

So I would give green light to their proposal, let them work out a
'competing' imc in Belgium and let's see if in a future some
'collaboration' (e.g. by taking over some features from each other)
could be possible. 

The aim of imc.vl to dissolve imc.be cannot be tolerated. If global
Indymedia would make it possible for them to do this, there is a risk
that no good Indymedia coverage at all will be done in Belgium, as the
imc.vl people didn't prove yet a lot about their skills of Indymedia
making untill now. I really would like to see them make some coverages
and features before talking about dissolving another, after all, hard
working IMC collective.

 

That's it I guess. Sorry if we Belgians are giving you so much troubles,
but I do not feel responsible for it.

 

Kind regards,

Lize

 

Ps due to some personal problems and the fact that I urgently need to
find a job, my participation into the imc.be collective is very low at
the moment. When things get better for me, I'll be back !
-- 
  
  tuc2002 at fastmail.fm

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service