[New-imc] Re: new imc-vl

[tuc2002 at fastmail.fm]

> 
>    Excuse me, Tuc, but you seem to write some contradictory things.
> 
>    Tuc: "Personnaly, I could cooperate with anyone in the future."
> 
>    But on the forum you wrote something that contradicts this.
> 
>    Tuc  on  the  VL-forum:  "I  know  a  lot of stalinists from Antwerpen
>    myself,  en  how  they  behave  in collectives. I'm not really looking
>    forward to work with them in our own IMC-Antwerpen."

It's not a contradiction, because my feeling towards them are conditional
on "how they behave in collectives". I used to travel Palestine with
someone from the PTB. No problem about behaviour though.

> 
>    You  also write that you felt like a diversity-excuse... Well I looked
>    it  up and excuse me again, but even if you were an excuse, you were a
>    very  weak  excuse. You sent seven mails to the edito-lists. Each time
>    with  reasonable  propositions, I agree, but there it stopped. We were
>    in  a  middle  of a war. There were actions all over Belgium. The work
>    load  was  unbearable,  but  nothing  from Tuc. I have no problem with
>    that.  Everybody  does  with  his  time what he wants, but please stop
>    syaing that someone used your work as an excuse.

Let me explain some things:
1. These are arguments ad hominem. 
That said:
2. The psychology of being a diversity-excuse is in fact that you have
great difficulty cooperating in a project you don't want to legitimize.
That's what happened, it's a feeling that might be familiar for others
too.
3. What I was doing during "the middle of the war" is indeed my problem.
I was preparing demo's organisationally, preparing articles for other
alternative media, and so on.

But again, I feel really bad aswering arguments ad hominem.

> 
>    You   should  also  stop  saying  that  our  collective  works  in  an
>    undemocratic  way. 'Undemocratic' means that things are decided behind
>    closed  doors  or  that  decisions  are taken by a minority. It surely
>    doesn't mean 'every decision I don't like'.

It's indeed not 'every decision I don't like'. But did I say that or is
it a discussion-technique?

> 
>    It  is  also  not  true  that  you've  been trying for years to change
>    IMC.be.  You  wrote  your  first comment in january 2002. In total you
>    wrote  8  articles  and  238  comments. There was never ever a comment
>    written  by  you hidden. And I found no comments of me our other 'evil
>    people' under your articles. So apparentely I liked them ;-)


Again:
1. We've been indeed trying to change IMC.be for years. And with 'we' I
mean everyone that is concerned with democracy within IMC.be. Right now
Lize is doing things other people did in the past.
2. You substitute 'we' for 'I'. 
So:
3. I started commentwriting under the name of 'TUc' during hilarious
discussions on islamic suicide bombings. 'TUc' was the name I used for
comments, when posting articles I would normally find more issue-related
names. But I don't claim that I posted more articles than comments. A lot
of my comments where in fact articles in itself, I just would find
arguments instead of calling names. Certainly in the beginning (the "wild
years", you remember ;).

Anyway, thanks for the statistics. Although I don't see why that would
prove us wrong.

> 
>    But  I agree that IMC.be has some problems. I really would like to see
>    you  cooperate with indymedia.be to try to help solve at least some of
>    them.  That  would  be  very interesting. Tell me what you don't like.

Here come the bridges burned: for a lot of people it got impossible to
start working in this IMC again. Be them new people (like me, because
prior volunteer work came to an end in my personal life), or old people
that were involved in IMC-Belgium in the past.

The reason why I don't want to exclude people from the 'Crickx-group' is
because I have love-hate relationships with some of you (mostly you
exactly). I used to have so much trouble with you that I personnaly
started to like you in some way or the other. Maybe people know that
feeling from personal experiences themselves. Witness your eyes on our
first face-to-face meeting at the bxl-demo when you wanted to interview
me and didn't know I was TUc. ;)

But anyway, to just start over again, going back to IMC-Belgium with a
high risk for al these people of meeting the same problems over and over
again (you now how fast we gave up discussing if Indymedia could sign the
STOPUSA-Resist platforms, because a lot of us just didn't feel that it
made sense to have al these fights over and over again. And it was
cristal clear that it would end up in fights: we just couldn't find a
common ground and some people were getting on their nerves. So we backed
- again.)

> 
>    My  'hidden agenda' is that I want a newssite. And I agree that a year
>    or  even  a  few months ago I was one of the people responsible of the
>    fact  that  IMC  was  becoming  more  and  more  a discussion-forum. A
>    newssite  means  not a rage-site, an NGO-site or a PTB-site but a site
>    with  news  on  it.  No  opinions  and discussions, but news. I'm even
>    thinking  how  we  can  have  more popular news on indymedia. Not only
>    articles  for the leftish few and for the incrowd. I'm trying to adapt
>    my style of writing in that way. Did you already notice? :-)

It's not in the articles, for me personally. Ask others how they feel
about it.
What people indeed did notice is that after the elections you knew that
you didn't have much legitimacy anymore.

> 
>    IMC  is hard because you are convicted to work together. Not only with
>    people  with a different ideology, but also with people with a big ego
>    and  a  little heart. I agree that that can be a tough job, especially
>    when it is not even your job but a hobby.

I can not disagree with that one.

But where is the different ideology in IMC.be left? 
Where have the anarchists gone? Where are the people from earth-first or
other greens? Where are the people from the other communist/leftist
tendencies (KP, RAGe, VONK, SAP, LSP, ...) ? Where are the people from
pink&green? Where are the people from what Han used to call "the
right-wing" (the right-wing being ATTAC, the NGO's)?

They are, indeed, away. Be it away from IMC as an organisation or IMC as
a medium.

sincerely,
TUc


> 
>    sincerely,
> 
>    christophe callewaert
>      _________________________________________________________________
> 
>    MSN 8 with [1]e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> 
> References
> 
>    1. http://g.msn.com/8HMTEN/2740??PS=
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