[New-imc] Re: Imc- Istanbul

[blue.pi]

O.k. let's discuss this problem on new-imc, because that is where it 
belongs. If we come to consensus that I am a bourgeois individualist (but I 
think that didn't refer to me, but to the tech-people), who shouldn't be 
doing indymedia, we will still have enough time to spread this message on 
the whole net. Sorry, for being cynical. 

Well, there are three things: 

1. Petros replies to a private email here. I think we should come to 
consensus on whether that's o.k. In this case I don't mind it that much. I 
mainly wrote to him personally in this case, because I didn't want to cause 
unnessecary traffic, kind of like when you sit in a f2f-meeting and whisper 
to your neighbor: "Hey, are you working on that, can I help you?" However, I 
do think we should inform people if this is a generally accepted behaviour 
on this list, because it is certainly not what you expect. 

2. Petros writes: 

I also
> think that you need to re-assess your own offers to
> help various imc-groups, as you have been doing
> recently, 

just a short comment: I have been helping imc-Iran, that's it. The issue 
with IMC Istanbul I only brought up, because it landed on the 
german-tech-list. And I am not "helping" IMC Beirut - I live here, I work 
here and I am also politically envolved, so I am part of the group. 

because the building of trust among people
> and organizations involved in this global struggle of
> life and death, requires an approach *different* from
> what I have seen you doing so far. I think you should
> go a little slower, and either accept some guidance
> from third-world /developing-world radicals so as to
> better judge what is appropriate and when, or back off
> entirely.

This concerns my work on this list. If people are of this opinion, I should 
stop my work here immediatly. If I am doing any of this, then I have choosen 
the wrong place. Most people I done activism with so far, appreciated my 
work. If this is not the case here, there is absolutely no reason for me to 
do it: I am quite busy with other things. So just tell me. 

3. Petros writes: 

The problem is that most (and
> the loudest) of our North American and West European
> indymedia activists do not know or understand (or
> value) the meaning of dependability, accountability, or
> collectivity. The imc-Istanbul group has been a victim
> of this internal Indymedia policy problem. It is a
> political problem essentially, a political conflict
> (the silent clash between bourgeois individualism
> disguised as "being revolotionary", versus radical
> collectivism), which, as the resistance and Liberation
> Movement becomes global we will have to confront and to
> eradicate from among us.

This, I think, does not necessarily refer to me, at least it must also refer 
to other people. If Petros feels this way about several people, we should 
discuss that as well. 

blue 


Petros Evdokas writes: 

> "blue.pi" wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Petros, 
>> 
>> what do you think about the problems with IMC Istanbul? You are
>> theoretically their contact, right? 
>> 
>> That they were very demanding is one thing, but I also think it's kind of
>> ridicilous not to have in IMC in Istanbul before the war, just because they
>> weren't polite enough. 
>> 
>> Have you tried solving the conflict, can I help you with that? 
>> 
>> regards
>> blue 
>> 
>> Get pgp key for bluepee3 at yahoo.com at www.keyserver.net
> 
> -------------------          
> 
> Hannah,  
> 
> I believe that the imc-Istanbul group has been very
> polite and very patient. The problem is that most (and
> the loudest) of our North American and West European
> indymedia activists do not know or understand (or
> value) the meaning of dependability, accountability, or
> collectivity. The imc-Istanbul group has been a victim
> of this internal Indymedia policy problem. It is a
> political problem essentially, a political conflict
> (the silent clash between bourgeois individualism
> disguised as "being revolotionary", versus radical
> collectivism), which, as the resistance and Liberation
> Movement becomes global we will have to confront and to
> eradicate from among us. 
> 
> I am not the contact for imc-istanbul, there are at
> least 2 other colleagues who are very good, dependable
> people, barkIn and Baris. I am a friend and ally of
> imc-istanbul. 
> If you have something *concrete* to offer to the group,
> I'm sure they would be happy to accept it. 
> 
> It is not my place to try to solve the conflict,
> because it would be interference on my part. I also
> think that you need to re-assess your own offers to
> help various imc-groups, as you have been doing
> recently, because the building of trust among people
> and organizations involved in this global struggle of
> life and death, requires an approach *different* from
> what I have seen you doing so far. I think you should
> go a little slower, and either accept some guidance
> from third-world /developing-world radicals so as to
> better judge what is appropriate and when, or back off
> entirely.   
> 
> We all have our place in the Movement, and sometimes we
> need to shoulder the less- visible, less- glamorous
> positions in order to provide more substantial and more
> crucial help. 
> 
> I'm forwarding a copy of this to imc-communication,
> because you have been branching your personal contacts
> within imc to many groups recently, and the liaisons
> there should all be made more of aware of this, and
> also to the new-imc working group because you have been
> vocal and visible there. Also of course, to
> imc-istanbul, and to some of the people in Lebanon,
> where there are similar concerns about things. 
> 
> These opinions are solely my own, though I know I am
> expressing concerns which are shared by many of us in
> and around the movement. 
> 
> Petros
> cyprus indymedia volunteer
> -------------------- 
> 
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