[New-imc] Re: IMC-Binghamton

[blue.pi]

Hi Bill, hi new-imc-list 

I know Arc has volunteered to take care of this. However, I think she may be 
a bit strict here. So this is what I think needs to be done by IMC 
Binghampton: 

You say, you have done an editorial policy, decision making policy etc. 
Maybe, I wasn't paying attention, but I don't think I have seen that, could 
you send that again, or send the link where it is in the archive? (After you 
send that it takes 7 days until you are approved and get your DNS back, 
unless we have some objections, which doesn't happen too often) 

But as it looks right now, we would have to object until you clarify one 
thing: In your emails, you always say "I" did this or that, than you say 
there is a group. Well, that is a bit confusing. I don't agree with Arc that 
there should be at least a dozen people working on one IMC (I know of at 
least two smaller ones in Europe), six people seems completely fine to me. 
However, those 6 should work together on those documents. So you should 
clarify whether that happend, if not call a meeting, discuss the documents 
and rewrite them (and then get back to us). 

About meeting with IMC Ithaca: Up to now that must be considered a 
suggestion not a requirement because we haven't really discussed Arc's 
proposal yet. I personally don't think that we can make that a general 
requirement or if we do we must work on how exactly we define distance (up 
to 50 km? same state? same country?). 

solidarity
blue 

Bill Huston writes: 

> Thus spake Arc:
>>> (Bill said:)
>>> I would be glad to meet. My partner, Rick, may be more difficult
>>> to persuade. Rick has a hearing disability which makes phone 
>>> conversation impossible and personal meetings difficult.
> 
>>You guys meeting face to face is very important if Rick is going to be
>>part of the IMC.  Seeing someone's face and communicating, even if it involves someone
>>having to sign everything that's said, having that person in the room is
>>important.  
> 
> Arc, you assume that Rick speaks sign language. You also assume that I 
> can understand sign language. I can't. Now, tell me why we should meet again? 
> 
> From http://newimc.indymedia.org/: 
> 
>     The strength of the IMC as a concept comes directly from its
>     organizational structure; namely, a decentralized network of
>     **autonomous** collectives... we have local IMC's throughout the 
>     world that are **autonomous** in their decision making... 
> 
> WTF does "autonomous" mean, if we can't decide local policies
> about how many people we have in our group and how often we
> meet, and even if we do meet?  
> 
> Are you all a lefty-liberal-progressive-alternative media
> collective, or some kind of fascist borg imposing all kinds
> of arbitrary rules upon new people for no good reason? 
> 
>>> We have that, and a website. http://binghamtonindy.org. In fact,
>>> we were in the DNS as binghamton.indymedia.org for about 1 day, 
>>> but now that's been removed for some reason. 
>>
>>The reason DNS was taken down is because binghamton is not an IMC yet.
> 
> That is a tautology, circular reasoning. Again: can someone clearly
> state what we need to do to proceed? Also, please refer to some
> online documentation if you could, because these rules seem arbitrary
> to me. 
> 
>>An IMC consists of several people, typically atleast a dozen, who have
>>an equal part in the decidion making process, meet regularly, and
>>collectivly make decidions.
> 
> Please cite some online docs which states how many people an 
> IMC needs to have. This rule, if it in fact is a rule, means that 
> there will probably never be IMCs in small towns, because of
> failure to meet some arbitrary number of members. 
> 
> Not every place is an Ithaca, Austin, SF, or Madison. Binghamton
> is a pretty conservative place. That all said, I am on the
> Media Access Committee of the local Broome County Network of
> Peace and Social Justice Coalition, which represents about 20 
> groups. We have regular meetings, and media issues are a big
> part.  
> 
>>DNS, and inclusion on the cities list, is not a goal.  It's a result.
> 
> It may not be a goal for you; you are already there. It DOES happen
> to be a goal for me for 2 reasons, already stated: 
> 
>    1) I've already advertised content on binghamton.indymedia.org
>       before we got yanked from the DNS. This makes us look bad
>       to the right-wingers in town we are trying to counter. 
> 
>    2) The website will be an organizing tool 
> 
>>That's awesome, then you already have connections with the people who
>>are likely to help you. Next advertise to these groups that a meeting is
>>going to happen and that anyone who's interested in creating an IMC
>>should come.  You should not say "join me", because there currently is
>>no group to join.  
> 
> There IS a group! You aren't listening. There are perhaps 200 members
> of local Peace and Social justice groups locally, and I belong to 
> a coalition of 20 member organizations, which I serve as media-access
> coordinator on a committee of 6 people. These 6 people (with webmaster
> Rick) ARE the Binghamton Indymedia Center. What more is necessary???? 
> 
>>Here's an example of what I'm trying to help you avoid (from a recent
>>posting on the imc-ithaca list, from one of it's female members): 
>>
>>> why am i not surprised that it's 2 men who "started" the imc in
>>> binghamton and are invited to come to ithaca and talk with the imc
>>> here about problems encountered over the last 11 months? are the
>>> remaining imc men prepared to relate the difficulties the imc has had
>>> with the way it alienates womyn? great.
> 
> Well, I'm not sure what problems you've faced there, but whomever the
> speaker is should not pre-judge my character by the fact that my gonads
> are external ;^) I'm rather offended by the sexist prejudice exhibited
> by a speaker who presumably been victimized by such. This is not 
> a way to help stop gender-based discriminiation, it seems to me. 
> 
>>Once the IMC
>>exists, once the website is up, you're going to have a ton of people
>>joining the IMC - many of whom are not dedicated to making it happen but
>>rather will simply want to control how it happens, if you don't have a
>>good foundation these people will cause the same things to happen there
>>as have happened everywhere else.  
> 
> Again: AUTONOMY. Let us solve our own problems once they occur. Please.
> Offer you assistance when we cry for help. Mentor us.  
> 
> But why prevent us from entering the collective due to some hypothetical 
> problem which we presently DON'T face and may never face?  
> 
>>That's why the IMC doesn't exist yet.  That's why the DNS was taken
>>down after it was mistakenly put up.  You need a group of people to get
>>together and collectivly create the IMC, not get people to join you in
>>the effort you have started.  
> 
> You have framed this in a way where it is impossible to proceed. 
> 
> To new IMCs ever give up? Or does the borg-fascist collective just
> eventually admit them after a suitable amount of whining over the
> arbitrary rules? 
> 
> Frustrated,
> Bill Huston 
> 
> --
> Bill Huston 
> 
> Herbivore Hangout:        http://vegdot.org
> Binghamton Public Access: http://BinghamtonPublicAccess.org
> Public Access TV general: http://PublicAccessTV.net
> Broome County PeaceNet:   http://bcpeace.vegdot.org 
> 
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed,
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only
> thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead 
> 
> 
 


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