[New-imc] PROPOSAL: removing arc from new-imc WG [deadline: 29 may 18 GMT]

[Jay]

Hi,

I missed the deadline to chime in about this proposal.

I'm sorry we've had to come to a point where so many people in the working 
group are so intent on removing one of its participants.  I'm not one to 
support the removal of an individual from a working group.  However, I do 
understand that sometimes members of a working group have to part ways when 
they simply can not find a way to work together.

Arc, I don't think anyone is faulting you, or Eric, for having strong 
opinions about consensus.  There are many people throughout the network who 
share your opinions on what consensus is, and how it works best.  I agree 
with your stance that having a 2/3 majority fallback in place can possibly 
lead to unhealthy decision-making, though I don't think having such a thing 
in place automatically negates the positive effects of consensus.  We could 
probably argue all day about this, and I feel like we have.

The problem seems to be less with the opinion in and of itself than with 
the unwillingness to compromise.  Again, I understand the strength of your 
conviction, and don't think anyone should try to convince you out of 
it.  Many others throught the Indymedia network have developed equally 
strong views about the decision-making processes they have (often 
painstakingly) developed in their IMCs.  Part of the beauty and power of 
the Indymedia network, as I see it, is the fact that different IMCs have 
the freedom to work in their own communities and in their own ways to come 
up with a method of work that is most effective for them.  I think the 
new-imc working group would be totally justified in recommending formal 
consensus over any other sort of decision-making process, if that's what we 
all would agree would be best, but I feel as if we'd be squelching the 
autonomy of local IMCs by absolutely requiring it.

I know, you strongly believe that having a 2/3 majority fallback position 
is not consensus, and therefore any IMC that has that kind of process is 
not making decisions by conesnsus.  I think we all understand the reasoning 
behind this.  The problem is, so many people throughout the network 
disagree, and have strong reasons behind their views as well.  When we're 
all willing to compromise and share opinions we can come up with some 
incredible and insprational things.  I'm afraid that when we stop being 
willing to listen to each other and forge common ground where it exists, we 
cease being able to do effective work at all.

Again, I'm sad to see that we've come to a point that so many people in the 
working group feel that an individual, or certain individuals, can not be a 
productive part of what goes on here.  I think this problem could be 
solved, over time, with the redevelopment of trust between Arc, Eric and 
the rest of the group.  I don't know if this is possible for a while, but 
we shouldn't assure that it can't happen by not enertaining the possibility.

Sorry for missing the decision deadline with my comments, and I really look 
forward to brining back the positive communication environment we've all 
enjoyed on this list since it began.

Jay






>Monday, May 26, 2003, 3:02:06 PM, evan said:
>
>e> I personally support this proposal.
>
>e> in solidarity,
>e> evan
>
>e> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 02:38  PM, PseudoPunk wrote:
>
> >> Hey Everyone,
> >>
> >> This is a proposal to remove arc from our Working Group.
> >> I think we really need to do this because his behaviour is unacceptable
> >> (bloking a complete valid imc for weeks, ...). He's just destroying our
> >> Working Group we've tried to build up for 2 years. He's killing the
> >> trust we had among our members, etc...
> >> And I have enough of all this.
> >> Besides, in whatever "offline" group/... this would allready have
> >> happened.
> >>
> >> If there are no seriously motivated objections before deadline I'll
> >> remove him on friday.
> >>
> >> For the case of transparancy I'll make a wiki page about this too (also
> >> friday).
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> Bart
> >>
> >> --
> >> <Sander> 99% van jnm'ers denken er ook zo over
> >> <christoph> stalinistische scores
> >>
> >> http://wvl.indymedia.org  |     bart at indymedia.org
> >> http://thepits.be         |     bart at thepits.be
> >> http://pseudopunk.be      |     icq: 48682266
> >>
> >> gebruik vrije software -- Debian GNU/Linux -- http://debian.org
> >>
> >> gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-keys be196251
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New-imc mailing list. Lista de correo New-imc
> >> New-imc at lists.indymedia.org
> >> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/new-imc
> >>
> >>
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