[New-imc] PROPOSAL: removing arc from new-imc WG [deadline:
29 may 18 GMT]
PseudoPunk
bart at indymedia.org
Sat May 31 02:17:06 PDT 2003
Hey,
I've also made the twiki page now
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcBanningArc
Jay wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I missed the deadline to chime in about this proposal.
>
> I'm sorry we've had to come to a point where so many people in the
> working group are so intent on removing one of its participants. I'm
> not one to support the removal of an individual from a working group.
> However, I do understand that sometimes members of a working group have
> to part ways when they simply can not find a way to work together.
I don't like to remove people neither. But at a certain point it's
getting a necessary thing to do. Arc has been obstructive since Imc
Ithaca was discussed here the first time.
Greetings,
Bart
>
> Arc, I don't think anyone is faulting you, or Eric, for having strong
> opinions about consensus. There are many people throughout the network
> who share your opinions on what consensus is, and how it works best. I
> agree with your stance that having a 2/3 majority fallback in place can
> possibly lead to unhealthy decision-making, though I don't think having
> such a thing in place automatically negates the positive effects of
> consensus. We could probably argue all day about this, and I feel like
> we have.
>
> The problem seems to be less with the opinion in and of itself than with
> the unwillingness to compromise. Again, I understand the strength of
> your conviction, and don't think anyone should try to convince you out
> of it. Many others throught the Indymedia network have developed
> equally strong views about the decision-making processes they have
> (often painstakingly) developed in their IMCs. Part of the beauty and
> power of the Indymedia network, as I see it, is the fact that different
> IMCs have the freedom to work in their own communities and in their own
> ways to come up with a method of work that is most effective for them.
> I think the new-imc working group would be totally justified in
> recommending formal consensus over any other sort of decision-making
> process, if that's what we all would agree would be best, but I feel as
> if we'd be squelching the autonomy of local IMCs by absolutely requiring
> it.
>
> I know, you strongly believe that having a 2/3 majority fallback
> position is not consensus, and therefore any IMC that has that kind of
> process is not making decisions by conesnsus. I think we all understand
> the reasoning behind this. The problem is, so many people throughout
> the network disagree, and have strong reasons behind their views as
> well. When we're all willing to compromise and share opinions we can
> come up with some incredible and insprational things. I'm afraid that
> when we stop being willing to listen to each other and forge common
> ground where it exists, we cease being able to do effective work at all.
>
> Again, I'm sad to see that we've come to a point that so many people in
> the working group feel that an individual, or certain individuals, can
> not be a productive part of what goes on here. I think this problem
> could be solved, over time, with the redevelopment of trust between Arc,
> Eric and the rest of the group. I don't know if this is possible for a
> while, but we shouldn't assure that it can't happen by not enertaining
> the possibility.
>
> Sorry for missing the decision deadline with my comments, and I really
> look forward to brining back the positive communication environment
> we've all enjoyed on this list since it began.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Monday, May 26, 2003, 3:02:06 PM, evan said:
>>
>> e> I personally support this proposal.
>>
>> e> in solidarity,
>> e> evan
>>
>> e> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 02:38 PM, PseudoPunk wrote:
>>
>> >> Hey Everyone,
>> >>
>> >> This is a proposal to remove arc from our Working Group.
>> >> I think we really need to do this because his behaviour is
>> unacceptable
>> >> (bloking a complete valid imc for weeks, ...). He's just destroying
>> our
>> >> Working Group we've tried to build up for 2 years. He's killing the
>> >> trust we had among our members, etc...
>> >> And I have enough of all this.
>> >> Besides, in whatever "offline" group/... this would allready have
>> >> happened.
>> >>
>> >> If there are no seriously motivated objections before deadline I'll
>> >> remove him on friday.
>> >>
>> >> For the case of transparancy I'll make a wiki page about this too
>> (also
>> >> friday).
>> >>
>> >> Greetings,
>> >>
>> >> Bart
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> <Sander> 99% van jnm'ers denken er ook zo over
>> >> <christoph> stalinistische scores
>> >>
>> >> http://wvl.indymedia.org | bart at indymedia.org
>> >> http://thepits.be | bart at thepits.be
>> >> http://pseudopunk.be | icq: 48682266
>> >>
>> >> gebruik vrije software -- Debian GNU/Linux -- http://debian.org
>> >>
>> >> gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-keys be196251
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> e>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> anarchogeek.com/pgp.txt
>> e> |
>> e>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> e> |
>> e> | - All words from hate mail sent to protest.net
>> e> |
>> e>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike
>> mailto:micro.zen at verizon.net
>
>
>
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--
<Sander> 99% van jnm'ers denken er ook zo over
<christoph> stalinistische scores
http://wvl.indymedia.org | bart at indymedia.org
http://thepits.be | bart at thepits.be
http://pseudopunk.be | icq: 48682266
gebruik vrije software -- Debian GNU/Linux -- http://debian.org
gpg --keyserver keys.indymedia.org --recv-keys be196251
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