[New-imc] Re: Online form: Proposed new IMC! (DNC IMC)

[clara]

Summary: Reasons for the block against dnc.iny
Subject: bloqueo contra dnc.indy

[Spanish below, thanks to Johnattan for the translation]

[en]
Dear all,

following are the reasons for the rather brusque block from yesterday.

Background:
There was a new-imc form submitted for dnc.indymedia.org for the DNC 
meeting in Boston by a member of IMC Boston, but also, according to the 
new-imc form, for future DNC meetings that will take place in other cities.
This started of a discussion whether this was a topic IMC or rather an 
event IMC, what topic IMCs might be etc., but also specific concerns about 
this proposed IMC.
Some of them where answered, but nothing was changed and the discussion 
kind of died out.

Robert now wants this to be sent to imc-process stating that there were no 
blocks and that it was posted to new-imc long enough ago. So my reasons to 
block this are the following:

1) This proposal has not even gone through the new-imc process:
There is no sponsor, and no deadlines were set.
There is no mission statement, no signed POU; no supporting groups besides 
IMC Boston.
Nothing besides the new-imc form.

2) The discussion about event IMCs is even less finished then that about 
topic IMCs. Serious concerns were raised about dnc.indy and they have not 
been fully addressed.
Similar concerns were raised in the application for wto.indymedia.org for 
example. One of them was that it would make the coverage of the next 
meeting at a different place difficult, and other proposals were made like 
wto2003 or cancun2003 to solve this. The discussion was not followed up in 
any structured way. This is of course not the fault of members of IMC 
Boston, but the situation has not changed so therefore we should take the 
same decission.

3) In the past the coverage of a major event has often stimulated the setup 
of a local IMC, and I understand that as an integral part of the outreach 
of Indymedia. Splitting of major events from local IMCs is therefore in my 
understanding contra-productive. In the proposed case of dnc.indy this goes 
even further as in the introduction statement the dnc.indy site appears to 
already claim the coverage of future DNc meetings.
A similar discussion seems to be taking place around the RNC meeting in 
NYC, and I think we are on a dangerous road if we have event IMCs that just 
come with there ready IMCs to any given locality, do their job and leave 
without leaving anything behind. (Okay, that's the worst case scenario....)

4) The main reason to set up this event IMC seem to be technical reasons, 
due to problems with subdomains, topics etc. There are another 6 months to 
go, so another option might be to develop the software further, and thereby 
also help other IMCs that might have similar problems. Another reason 
mentioned was the wish to archive the events around re-occuring events like 
DNC better. Here I also think that it would server everybody better if this 
could be solved on a general level. For example by putting up a page with 
links to all past coverage of the different DNCs, WTO meetings, G8s etc.
None of the technical or archive problems are a sufficient reason to me, to 
put up a second IMC in a city.

(By the way:
It is amazing that new ideas come up about different classes of domain 
names, but next to no discussion takes place about the rather detailed 
proposal that has been made months ago about how topic IMCs could be 
defined and which roles they could fulfill in the Indymedia network.
too few people are also interested in taking this discussions into 
new-project(a)indymedia.org workingroup.
And while the liason from IMC Boston complains that the discussion already 
takes much to long and that they can't wait anymore, no contribution came 
from them either.)

-------------------------------------------

[es]

Subject: bloqueo contra dnc.indy

[Nota del traductor:
DNC es la Democratic National Convention, Convención del Partido
Demócrata de EEUU.
RNC republican national convention, Convención del Partido Repulicano.
]

Querid at s,

a continuación están las razones para el brusco bloqueo de ayer:

Background:
Hubo un formulario de new-imc enviado para dnc.indymedia.org para el
encuentro de DNC en Boston por un miembro de IMC Boston, pero también,
de acuerdo al formulario new-imc, para futuros encuentros de DNC que
tendrían lugar en otras ciudades.
Esto generó una discusión sobre si era un IMC temático o un IMC de
cubrir eventos, qué deberían ser los IMCs temáticos, etc., pero también
preocupaciones específicas sobre esta propuesta de IMC.
Algunas de ellas se respondieron, pero nada fue cambiado y la discusión
parece que murió.

Robert ahora quiere que esto sea mandado a imc-process indicando que no
hubieron bloqueos y que fue posteado a new-imc hace bastante tiempo. Así
que mis razones para bloquearlo son las siguientes:


1) Esta propuesta no ha pasado nunca por el proceso new-imc:
No hay esponsor, y no se mandaron deadlines.
No hay declaración de principios, no han firmado Principios de Unidad;
no hay grupos que lo soporten aparte de IMC Boston.
Nada junto al formulario new-imc.


2) La discusión sobre IMCs para cubrir eventos es aún más incompleta que
esa sobre IMCs temáticos. Serias preocupaciones se manifestaron sobre
dnc.indy y no han sido completamente resueltas. Por ejemplo se
manifestaron similares preocupaciones in la application for
wto.indymedia.org. Una de ellas fue que sería difícil dar cobertura al
siguiente encuentro en un lugar diferente, y se hicieron otras
propuestas como wto2003 o cancun2003 para solventarlo. La discusión no
fue continuada de ninguna forma estructurada. Esto no es por supuesto un
fallo de lxs miembrxs de IMC Boston, pero la situación no ha cambiado
así que deberíamos tomar la misma decisión.


3) En el pasado, la cobertura de un gran evento ha corrido a menudo a
cargo de un IMC local, y yo entiendo que como parte integral del
crecimiento de Indymedia. Separando la cobertura de eventos de los IMCs
locales es además, según lo entiendo, contraproductivo. En el caso
propuesto de dnc.indy esto va aún más allá ya que en la declaración
introductoria el dnc.indy parece demandar la obertura de futuros
encuentros de DNC. Una discusión similar parece estar teniendo lugar
sobre el encuentro de RNC en NYC, i pienso que estamos en un camino
peligroso si tenemos IMCs para cobertura de eventos que aparecen en un
lugar dado, hacen su trabajo y se marchan sin dejar nada atrás. (vale,
este es el escenario del peor caso....)

4) La razón principal para montar este IMC de cobertura de eventos
parece ser técnica, debido a problemas con subdominios, tópicos, etc.
Quedan 6 meses por delante así que otra opción puede ser desarrollar
software, y así además ayudar a otros IMCs que podrían tener problemas
similares. Otra razón mencionada fue el deseo de archivar mejor la
información sobre eventos como la DNC. Sobre esto pienso que podría
servirnos mejor a todxs si es resuelto a nivel general. Por ejemplo
poniendo una página con links a todas las coberturas en el pasado de los
diferentes DNCs, encuentros de la OMC, G8s etc.
Ninguno de los problemas técnicos o de archivo son razón suficiente para
mí, para poner un segundo IMC en una ciudad.

(Por otra parte:
Es sorprendente que surjan nuevas ideas sobre diferentes clases de
nombres de dominio, pero junto a que ninguna discusión acontece sobre la
propuesta algo detallada que fue hecha hace meses sobre cómo podrían
definirse IMCs temáticos y qué papel podrían jugar en la red indymedia.
Alguna gente más está también interesada en llevar esta discusión al
grupo de trabajo new-project(a)indymedia.org.
Y mientras el enlace de IMC Boston se queja de que la discusión ya lleva
mucho tiempo y que no pueden esperar más, ninguna contribución llega
desde ellos tampoco.)

---------------------------------------

Love and solidarity,
Clara

-----------------------------------------------------
At 16:29 12-1-2004, clara wrote:
>okay,
>just be quick and clear, even though I think there were numerous concerns 
>raised on this list as immediate replies:
>I'm blocking such a url.
>
>I send a longer mail later today
>
>clara
>
>
>At 16:14 12-1-2004, Robert wrote:
>>Hey all,
>>
>>Wondering if I might strike up the discussion on my application again.  My
>>apologies for pushing this along, but Boston desperately needs to get this
>>underway.
>>
>>The feeling in Boston, with respects to the suggestions made on this
>>application regarding the DNS (e.g., democraticparty.topic.indymedia.org,
>>dnc.topicimc.org, etc.), is that we would still like to pursue
>>dnc.indymedia.org as the official URL for coverage of the Democratic
>>National Convention in July.
>>
>>I feel that the discussion arising from this applicaton, as I'm sure it's
>>sprang up from previous requests for issue-based IMCs, is an important
>>one.  We should indeed amend our existing process for the creating for all
>>IMCs with a uniform URL for topic based websites.  However, until that
>>decision is finalized, we should not allow process to impede progress for
>>current applications.  The need for this website is long since due in
>>Boston, and judging by the respectful yet lengthy debate on how to handle
>>topic IMC URLs following my applicaton, we cannot wait for this approval
>>to come before creating our DNC website.
>>
>>It's been two weeks since I applied for dnc.indymedia.org.  If I've read
>>the new imc website correctly, should no one block on new imc for three
>>days, the discussion move to imc process for one week, and approval be met
>>should no one block there within a week's time.  I hesitated a reminder of
>>this application because of the discussion, wanting to make sure everyone
>>was heard (and, yeah, because of the holidays).  Given the extension and
>>no official block, I ask that this now move to IMC-process for review.
>>
>>The original application is included again below for easier reference.
>>
>>Also, on another note, a little while back there was question into
>>sponsors for all open applications; just to clarify for DNC, I am the
>>sponsor for this website, acting as liason for the Boston IMC.
>>
>>Thanks so much,
>>
>>Robert
>>Boston Independent Media Center
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Submitted by: Robert <robert at riseup.net> on Sunday, December 28th, 2003 @
>>1:04:22 am (-0500)
>>
>>Client Variables
>>----------------
>>
>>HTTP_USER_AGENT:
>>Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; MyIE2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
>>
>>Online Form Fields
>>------------------
>>
>>imc_name:
>>dnc.indymedia
>>
>>city:
>>Boston
>>
>>state:
>>MA
>>
>>country:
>>United States
>>
>>contact_name:
>>Robert
>>
>>contact_email:
>>robert at riseup.net
>>
>>contact_phone:
>>781-454-7825
>>
>>tech_name:
>>Robert
>>
>>tech_email:
>>robert at riseup.net
>>
>>tech_phone:
>>781-454-7825
>>
>>supporting_groups:
>>Boston IMC
>>
>>issue_focus:
>>yes
>>
>>critical_dates:
>>July 26-29th (DNC event)
>>
>>resources:
>>Boston Indymedia is already in preparation to assist organizing and to
>>cover the Democratic National Convention, held in Boston this July.
>>Several of the mailing lists for organizing working groups have been
>>formed, and we\'ve confirmed hosting space of the Buffalo IMC server,
>>Dissent, which currently hosts the Boston IMC website as well as many
>>other IMC websites in New England and the nation.
>>
>>outreach:
>>In addition to already working as an IMC collective to prepare for this
>>event, members of the Boston team have attended meetings of other affinity
>>groups in the area. Individuals from our community and activists from
>>around the nation having inquired about information about this event, as
>>well as contact for other local groups, housing, transportation, etc.
>>This in mind, we will dedicate a large portion of the website will focus
>>on the efforts of local groups converging against the DNC.
>>
>>introductory_statement:
>>Originally intended placing a focus on the DNC within our existing
>>website, the Boston IMC tech team considered it would be both better
>>managed and better archived to create a separate website that could be
>>used in the future for other local IMCs to plan protests against in future
>>conventions, wherever they should take place.
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>imc-process mailing list
>>imc-process at lists.indymedia.org
>>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-process
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-imc mailing list. Lista de correo New-imc
>>New-imc at lists.indymedia.org
>>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/new-imc
>
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