[Imc-cleveland] Re: [New-imc] Re: [IMC-Tech] Re: [IMC-Editorial] Warning! Aryan nations using your bandwidth!!! -from Boston IMC

Sun May 30 05:36:21 PDT 2004

Yeah

We are sorta new to this all - but have watched the Troll incursions
increase over the years as indymedia journos of long standing.

This is a piece I wrote on Melbourne a while ago.

(Our Ed Pol is based on the Perth/Melb model) We have added a line
regarding long-term Trolls and an Aboriginal protocol. No one's asked
us for our Ed Pol submission yet.

-----------------------------------------

Faulty premise...
by mick lambe Tuesday April 27, 2004
pariahnt at yahoo.com 

'Free speech' says - "Either you have free speech and accept that
some of it will be bullshit (and the public know that too), but that
you are NOT responsible. Or you dont have free speech in which case
Indy IS directly responsible for everything that goes up there." 

----------------------------------------------------------------- 

Mick - Editorial Policy would mean indy were "directly responsible"
given that premise. Indymedia is not absolute free speech. Trolls
would quickly make a truly free speech site unworkable and
unreadable, destroying a mainstay of the Editorial Policy... 

- To preserve the quality of the website as a useful media resource. 

Not to mention racist posts, hate posts and personal attacks, all
within Ed Pol at present. Ed Pol depends on the collective, their
interpretation of guidelines, or even their mood that day. It's a
human process. 

Most of the problems in the original article are already incorporated
in Ed Pol. Some cited. Indy collectives can only do the best they can
under 'prevailing' circumstances and are NEVER directly responsible
for consequences. Stick to that :-) 

If people are not happy with Ed Pol interpretations they can join
their local collective and change things. That's about as good as it
gets in the free speech department. 

Paradoxically - Trolls and other hate-filled, censorious creatures
(because they make Ed Pol necessary) are indymedia's greatest
advocates of Absolute free speech. 

-------------------------------------------------- 

"Who is going to bother writing a story on some burning issue in
their community and post it to the newswire if it is going to be
swept away on a flood of flamebait?" 

Quote from Chuck O - http://www.infoshop.org/

Ends

(This interesting discussion was "swept away on a flood of
flamebait")

:-)

--------------------------------------------

I guess an analogy would be people standing on soap boxes trying to
get their message out, while other people on soap boxes screamed
gibberish and obscenities to drown them out. That is not free speech.
And sees us providing the soap boxes for Trolls, intent on disrupting
free speech and marginalising a valuable media resource.

We are ruthless on Trolls - within Ed Pol. We have a responsibility
to ensure this indy remains a viable media resource.

- cheers

mick

http://darwin.perthimc.asn.au/

-------------------------------------

--- laura hartman <lalaimc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I agree.  Damn trolls.
> 
> 
> >From: Shayne O'Neill <shayne at guild.murdoch.edu.au>
> >To: Micah Anderson <micah at indymedia.org>
> >CC: nessie at sfbg.com, 
> >imc-tech at indymedia.org,imc-process at lists.indymedia.org, Pete
> Stidman 
> ><petestid at yahoo.com>,wildelotus at aol.com, 
> >new-imc at lists.indymedia.org,imc-cleveland at lists.indymedia.org,
> Chuck0 
> ><chuck at mutualaid.org>,imc-editorial at indymedia.org
> >Subject: [Imc-cleveland] Re: [New-imc] Re: [IMC-Tech] Re:
> [IMC-Editorial] 
> >Warning! Aryan nations using your bandwidth!!! -from Boston IMC
> >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:47:22 +0800 (WST)
> >
> >
> >The best part about taking a pro-active anti nasi policy is that
> it works!
> >Seriously. But you gotta nip that sucker in the bud early before
> it gets
> >out of hand.
> >
> >These facist twerps thrive on attention, and if you starve em off
> it, they
> >go away.
> >
> >As the good folk of Sonic Youth would say in paraphrase "you gotta
> bury em
> >man"
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >"Must not Sleep! Must warn others!"
> >-Aesop.
> >Shayne O'Neill. Indymedia. Fun.
> >http://www.perthimc.asn.au
> >
> >On Tue, 25 May 2004, Micah Anderson wrote:
> >
> > > In the US people have this ideal of freespeech that some IMCs
> have
> > > held above that of equalizing the media inequalities existant
> in our
> > > society. Many have felt that "Open Publishing" means "Free
> Speech" and
> > > have missed the well-established history of
> right-wing/corporate
> > > co-optation and abuse of such venues (ie. the IMC is not
> Usenet, or it
> > > should not be). This is a nice ideal to have, until your IMC
> becomes a
> > > festering pit of pornography, right-wing manifestos, nazi
> propaganda,
> > > duplicate posts and commercial slithering. Many IMCs caved
> under this
> > > pressure, or at least the "little green footballs" website
> people
> > > claim responsibility for such destruction (they also claim
> Indymedia
> > > is a project of Bill O'Reilly and is actually a Nazi project
> based in
> > > Idaho, go figure). Some IMCs have matured their understanding
> of the
> > > "free speech" and have developed editorial policies to return
> to their
> > > IMC roots, some have great difficulty in constructing these
> policies,
> > > and some have great difficulty in maintaining these policies.
> > >
> > > In any case, this information needs to make it out to the New
> IMC
> > > process and documents so that incoming IMCs can learn from past
> IMCs
> > > trials and tribulations.
> > >
> > > I speak only of the US, because I understand it, I will not
> pretend to
> > > be presumptous of IMCs outside of the US.
> > >
> > > micah
> > >
> > > On Mon, 24 May 2004, Chuck0 wrote:
> > >
> > > > nessie at sfbg.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >This is not an isolated incident. Our enemies are using
> sites across 
> >the
> > > > >network to broadcast their propaganda. In mongering
> propaganda, and
> > > > >worse, appear even once, on even one IMC local, it
> discredits all
> > > > >Indymedia and every IMCista. It directly infringes on our
> ability to 
> >do
> > > > >authentic journalism and effective organizing. In
> journalism,
> > > > >credibility is everything. If left unchecked, this will
> destroy
> > > > >Indymedia. All the work we have done will have been for
> naught.
> > > > >
> > > > >It's been particularly bad at Vancouver-IMC. I've been
> harassing them
> > > > >about it for weeks, Before that, realizing that they might
> be short
> > > > >handed, I offered to help. I'm good at editing. I keep
> SF-IMC troll
> > > > >free. Our traffic reflects this. Quality content brings in
> regular
> > > > >traffic. Trash drives away the very people we are trying
> hardest to
> > > > >attract. Vancouver-IMC's editors didn't even have the
> common, human
> > > > >decency to answer my email until after I called them in
> public. They
> > > > >repeatedly defended their practice of permitting Nazi
> propaganda, and
> > > > >worse, to be broadcast over their bandwidth, by saying
> "diversity is
> > > > >beautiful."
> > > > >
> > > > >When Nazi propaganda  is published under your name and logo,
> people 
> >are
> > > > >going to assume that you, too are a Nazi sympathizer. This
> is a fact 
> >of
> > > > >life. When Vancouver-IMC publishes this crap, it hurts *all*
> of us, 
> >and
> > > > >all Indymedia. It must stop.
> > > > >
> > > > >It's a global problem. It needs a global solution. That
> requires 
> >global
> > > > >process. When I brought it up on the [imc-process] mailing
> list, I 
> >was
> > > > >told to go away.
> > > > >
> > > > >See:
> > > > >
> > > >
>
>http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2004-May/date.html
> > > > >
> > > > >Now I don't know what to do. I subbed to the [imc-editorial]
> list in
> > > > >hopes that there would be people here discussing IMC
> editorial 
> >policy.
> > > > >Instead, until this email, I saw nothing but ad spam. We
> could change
> > > > >that by beginning to discuss here this crucial issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >What are we going to do about Indymedia's reputation, and
> our own, 
> >being
> > > > >destroyed by misuse of our name and logo by our mortal
> enemies? There
> > > > >must be some solution. What is it?
> > > >
> > > > I agree 100% with Nessie. One of my main motivations for
> writing my
> > > > popular essay, "The Sad Decline of Indymedia"
> > > >
> <http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=02/12/08/2553147>,
> 
> >was
> > > > to point out that inaction by IMC concerning these right wing
> assaults
> > > > was contributing to an atmosphere where Indymedia was being 
> >discredited
> > > > and IMCs were turned into places that were unfriendly to DIY
> > > > journalists. I suspect that that essay hit a chord across the
> network
> > > > because many other IMC stakeholders shared similar concerns.
> Many IMCs
> > > > took action after that essay appeared and implemented new
> moderation
> > > > policies. These efforts improved the situation, but I've
> always
> > > > suspected that the years of inaction drove away more
> potential IMC
> > > > participants than have been gained back since things were
> improved.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, as Nessie points out, right wing disruption of IMC
> websites
> > > > is especially bad on individual sites where the moderation is
> lax,
> > > > nonexistent, or simply misguided. As Nessie explains, most
> people 
> >don't
> > > > understand the distinction between open publishing and
> content 
> >published
> > > > under the Indymedia name. Some of the smarter members of the
> right 
> >wing
> 
=== message truncated ===

=====

Mick Lambe - Coordinator: PARIAH - BETTER A PARIAH - THAN A LIAR
People Against Racism In Aboriginal Homelands - Northern Territory, Australia 
  Archived by the National Library of Australia for preservation as a site of national significance and lasting cultural value. Join our mailout list (spam free zone)
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