[Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture

Fri Sep 19 14:26:57 PDT 2003

How about an article then that highlights a new/temporary fix that  calls
for more editors, writers, etc. I'm most interested in having a feature on
the problems we have been having and bringing people in as a feature.

In this proposal I was going for "controversy" as suggested by Judy, and
calling attention to our needs at the same time.

I understand about feeding the troll... I can work on a different approach,
however, I feel we could generate interest in our readership in a
controversy such as this, and then also that it is news cause there is a
whole movement here to uncover, a movement that I never heard of, and in
that makes it relevant "news" for activists.

I'll work up a new proposal.

Gentry

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy G Kahn [mailto:jgk at fifthhorseman.net]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 1:05 PM
To: g at art13.com
Cc: typist at speakeasy.net; Editorial
Subject: Re: [Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture

Gentry Lange wrote:

>Here's an alternative to so called erasing--rename the "hidden" policy,
>calling it moderated and unmoderated, and add a link to the newswire that
>allows newswire readers to choose.
>
>Technically, this shouldn't be impossible... even with no knowledge of the
>codebase, it's wouldn't actually be doing anything but adding a link to the
>frontpage that took a person to the same page as the "hidden article" page
>which the administration page takes us to.
>
>
Technically, anything's *possible*. Until we make more progress on the
codebase, everything's just *difficult*.

>This fix/proposal would allow us to moderate the newswire, but would also
>preserve totally unmoderated free speech section.
>
>
I think this is a good idea -- but I think we should be able to have
other moderation, as well. I for one feel uncomfortable with scoring,
but I like the idea that I could read articles selected by a team --
including other teams than the editorial group.

>I would still want to run the article, then explain a new policy in terms
of
>these postings to the general audience.  I think activists need to read
>these articles and know what's going on. I also think it is news, due to
the
>amount on our wire, and regardless of the author's intent or gain of
>particular links, we shouldn't hide crap like this, we should turn the
>lights on and make people aware of things.
>
>
I feel that drawing attention to Nazi spammers is "feeding the troll";
silently making their posts less useful (erasing as we go, or whatever)
is the way to deal with them.  To make them feel like "I am such a pest
that they wrote a front page story about me" is exactly the kind of
feedback they *want*. It only takes one sociopath who feels this way to
make fulltime work for a team of editors.

Instead, I vote for ignoring them -- and hiding their redundant posts.
We have a well-established policy against redundancy.  If there's some
concern about changing the content of their comment, we should replace
it with the simple text:

  [ duplicate ]

or, if you want to be clearer (though I don't like this solution):

  [ duplicate of --link to article of which it is a double-- ]

This way we treat them like the posting errors we wish they were.

I'm willing to consider other editorial policies -- but I think most of
the fair ones really require better technical infrastructure than we
have, so I'm not eager to jump the gun. We should change policy when we
have the right tools to enforce that policy, and not before then.

So I'm with Judy; I'd rather not post this article. We could post it to
the IMC-Seattle list to explain what's going on and seek support, perhaps?

--jeremy

>Gentry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: typist at speakeasy.net [mailto:typist at speakeasy.net]
>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:19 AM
>To: g at art13.com; typist at speakeasy.net; Editorial
>Subject: Re: [Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture
>
>
>Actually, I'm more in favor of erasing these posts than featuring them.
>Those writers getting more attention would love that, love it!  This nazi
>environmentalist nonsense is detracting from more important work.  I
propose
>that the editorial collective agree that they are a waste of our time and
>web space and discourage their further posting by removing them.  Please.
>They are creating an "unsafe" environment for the community and need to go
>on those grounds.  Erase them Gentry I say erase them, they're just crap
and
>we need to get on with real community building. As a collective we can
agree
>that more agressive editing of the newswire needs to happen to make it a
>functional community resource.  Folks, can we take this action?
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gentry Lange [mailto:g at art13.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 05:07 PM
>>To: typist at speakeasy.net, 'Editorial'
>>Subject: RE: [Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture
>>
>>Why not? Really, I think getting people involved through controversy is a
>>good thing. As you probably know I would be the first one to just erase
>>these posts, but lacking that I think acknowledging that our newswire is
>>being overrun and then calling for volunteers could be useful.
>>
>>Anyway, I won't be back at my computer until this evening, so I hope
>>
>>
>others
>
>
>>in the Collective will ad their 2 cents. But really, calling attention to
>>this one of the point of the article.
>>
>>Gentry
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: typist at speakeasy.net [mailto:typist at speakeasy.net]
>>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:50 AM
>>To: g at art13.com; Editorial
>>Subject: Re: [Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture
>>
>>
>>I'm not so sure we want to call any more attention to these folks by
>>featuring them.
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Gentry Lange [mailto:g at art13.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 04:04 AM
>>>To: 'Editorial'
>>>Subject: [Seattle-editorial] FP: Nazis, nature, nuture
>>>
>>>This proposal is a little wacky. Check the links before you approve,
>>>
>>>
>cause
>
>
>>>I've linked to stuff that's annoying me on the newswire as I want people
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>take a minute to see what's going on, and call for help simultaneously.
>>>
>>>As usual here's the working version with links:
>>>http://www.art13.com/gentry/rants/nazis.htm
>>>
>>>Gentry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
>
>
>>>_____________
>>>
>>>Title: Nazis, Nature, Nurture
>>>
>>>Subtitle: Call for Editorial Volunteers
>>>
>>>What's this about calling everyone Nazi's? Environmental Nazi's? The
>>>
>>>
>Bush
>
>
>>>Administration? Is everyone a Nazi? Is this just some new bait tactic?
>>>
>>>The Left and the Right, it seems everyone these days is calling each
>>>
>>>
>other
>
>
>>>Nazi. The Nazis put people in ovens and made lampshades out of human
>>>
>>>
>skin.
>
>
>>>While the US invades countries for resources, in order to subjugate the
>>>people to the American Corporate Government's political will, and in
>>>
>>>
>order
>
>
>>>to exploit cheap labor. Is this behavior really analogous?
>>>
>>>Read More about this wacky anti-Environmentalist movement here at
>>>Christianity.com
>>>
>>>Want to help make the Seattle Indymedia newswire useful? Volunteer for
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>Seattle Editorial Collective by emailing us
>>>(seattle-editorial at lists.indymedia.org). Or come to the weekly editorial
>>>meeting, 1415 3rd Ave 6-6:30pm every Tuesday until further notice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
>
>
>>>____________
>>>
>>><p><img src="http://portland.indymedia.org/icon/2003/07/267612.jpg"></p>
>>><p>Title: Nazis, Nature, Nurture</p>
>>><p>Subtitle: Call for Editorial Volunteers</p>
>>><p>What's this about <a
>>>href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=33086">calling
>>>  everyone Nazi's</a>? <a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=33069&amp;group=we
b
>
>
>>>cast">Environmental
>>>  Nazi's</a>? The <a
>>>href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=32700">Bush
>>>  Administration</a>? Is <a
>>>href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=32778">everyone
>>>  a Nazi</a>? Is this just some new bait tactic? </p>
>>><p>The <a
>>>
>>>
>>href="http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/07/267613.shtml">Left
>>
>>
>>>and
>>>  the Right</a>, it seems <a
>>>href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=32385">everyone
>>>  these days is calling each other Nazi</a>. The Nazis put people in
>>>
>>>
>ovens
>
>
>>>and
>>>  made lampshades out of human skin. While the US invades countries for
>>>resources,
>>>  in order to subjugate the people to the American Corporate
>>>
>>>
>Government's
>
>
>>>political
>>>  will, and in order to exploit cheap labor. Is this behavior really
>>>analogous?</p>
>>><p>Read More about this wacky anti-Environmentalist movement <a
>>>href="http://home.christianity.com/ministries/aig/52413.html">here</a>
>>>  at Christianity.com</p>
>>><p>Want to help make the Seattle Indymedia newswire useful? Volunteer
>>>
>>>
>for
>
>
>>>the<a href="http://seattle.indymedia.org/policy.php3">
>>>  Seattle Editorial Collective</a> by emailing us (<a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>href="mailto:seattle-editorial at lists.indymedia.org">seattle-editorial at lists
.
>
>
>>>indymedia.org</a>).</p>
>>><p>Post your comments</p>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Seattle-editorial mailing list
>>>Seattle-editorial at lists.indymedia.org
>>>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/seattle-editorial
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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