[Seattle-editorial] Re: [IMC-Seattle] (was: Re: [Imc-seattle-community] mail to general list not being distributed?

Thu Mar 4 01:30:51 PST 2004

Hi folks,

I have never posted here before, but I wanted to offer my two cents.

I was at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th first meetings of the IMC in 1999. At that
time, there was a proposal on the table to create a basic process for
group accountability, and it wasn't supported by the leadership of the
project at that time, few of whom are around now. If we look at cultural
issues within an organization, it can usually be traced back to the
failure of those most involved in the process to set goals around agreeing
to a concrete system of doing things, that is easily understood,
transparent, and most important, workable. When such a culture has existed
for a long period of time without clear direction toward such goals,
collapse is inevitable, and sometimes necessary.

I speak from the perspective of someone who has been active in Seattle for
over 10 years, and has made some of the same mistakes I see being made
(from an outsider's perspective) at Seattle IMC. In any organization,
there has to be an ethic that conflict is part of the function of a group,
and the ability to manage it without interfering the operations of an
organization is how organizations grow while also having the necessary
debate to keep them progressive. When those in conflict choose to
compromise the operational aspects of an organization to gain more
political power in a conflict, the needs of the collective are
compromised, not to mention those of us in the community that derive
benefits from the work of such a collective. (the way this plays out 
in a traditional business model is that workers go on strike, which is 
why management is always concerned with these issues, albeit with 
entirely different motivations than us) Also, when people in the
community want to use the resources, and find that they have to engage in
conflicts in order to simply use the operational aspects, that is when the
decision is made to simply move on. 

Every person joins an organization to fulfill a psychological need. If an 
organization's leadership is comprised of people who need to exist in 
dysfunction, then these are the kinds that will be attracted to the 
organization, while other pass it on by. This is not a statement 
specifically about the Seattle IMC, but of the left in general, though the 
IMC surely is a part of "the left". 

Who is the Seattle IMC accountable to? In a capitalist business, the
workers are accountable to their supervisors. In a union, the officers are
accountable to the members. In a member based organization, the leaders
are accountable to their constituencies. In a democracy, the minority is
subordinate to the majority, after free debate and a vote. In a consensus
organization, the majority is subordinate to the minority. But what if 
some people in an organization think that it's a boss/worker relationship 
(hierarchy) some think it is a democracy, some think consensus,and some 
think constituency, what are the results? You have several organizations 
competing with one another, and the stress that this creates ratchets up 
the emotional aspects that go along with it. The current crisis in the 
Seattle left is how to achieve immediate results before the clash of all of 
these tendencies spill into open conflict, and the inability to understand 
 this repeated impending clash prevents permanent coalitions from being
formed out of particular struggles. 

The anger and dysfunctionality is a symptom of the bigger issue of not
being able to agree on a system and ethic. The end result is the energy is
drained from the operational aspect of an organization. The left, and its
component organizations re-invent the wheel every few years, and go in
circles. The understanding of this dynamic is the only way to get beyond
it and have successful organizations, and thus an effective movement,
which to some of us means the permanent dismantling of institutions that
perpetuate this kind of chaos, at the expense of life.

peace,

John P

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, sheri at speakeasy.org wrote:

> hi,
> 
> i'm chiming in as well.
> 
> what you are pointing out are some very valid critiques and i hope that the editorial group (which i would suggest needs to meet to tackle some of these issues) would take them on and consider them valuable feedback.  
> 
> benjamin's newswire posting about ideas for improving the website and asking people for feedback, inspired several comments, one of which was an excellent comparison with how effectively the portland indymedia site works and efficiently.  i think these are all good ideas for how we can make things better.
> 
> what i find frustrating is when people just abandon and jump ship because things aren't going the way they want to see them go.  kristen, your comments are good ones, invaluable, totally valid, but the seattle editorial collective is not really a functioning collective (in my humble opinion, i know there are others who have argued that it's working just fine, i respectfully disagree). supposedly this group is supposed to be one of the active components of the seattle imc, but it isn't.  and unless some people start to work together seriously and consistently, it is going to continue to frustrate people like yourself and others
> 
> So i would like to request that you not take off, but that you encourage us to (1) have a meeting face to face with those who can (2) consider these critiques and constructive feedback (3) be more accountable to the community (4) take steps to make the seattle imc website a vibrant site (one of the agreements the group consensed to)....
> 
> please consider these things and i encourage someone from this working group to convene a meeting; i'd rather it not be me.  but i will attend :)))
> 
> peace,
> and solidarity
> sheri
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sheelanagig at juno.com [mailto:sheelanagig at juno.com]
> > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 04:35 PM
> > To: anarch3m at lycos.com
> > Cc: imc-seattle-community at lists.indymedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Imc-seattle-community] mail to general list not being	distributed?
> > 
> > I must also chime in.
> > After sending the editorial list several timely articles that never even
> > got posted AFTER the wetland story that is months old and still up, I
> > have quit submitting in all forms to the Seattle IMC cuz I do not want to
> > be associated with a site that is so poorly run, honestly, and I am sorry
> > to say that.
> > 
> > I have had SEVERAL main feature articles on Portland Indy Media in the
> > time that you all have posted none, and I am tired of wasting energy with
> > seattle IMC. So I quit even posting on the sidebar at Sea IMC. 
> > 
> > I do not even have to send the editorial group my articles to get them to
> > the main page with Portland IMC. I put them onto the open newswire and
> > they take them from there and put them on the middle column. It is EASY.
> > AND IT USUALLY HAPPENS WITHIN A FEW HOURS OF ME OPEN POSTING. Your group
> > insisted I first post tothe open newswire, then I send you the link and
> > the article to the feature egit group, then IT STILL WENT NOWHERE! It was
> > sick that the WTO settlement story I wrote went front page at
> > Infoshop.org, Portland IMC, all over, but it NEVER MADE IT TO THE SEA IMC
> > while the OLD oil spill story stayed!!!!!!
> > 
> > I understand this is volunteer. I understand people are fed up and are
> > standing away from this project. But if something is not cleaned up soon,
> > I would have to say I think Sea IMC should be taken OFF the IMC system as
> > it is substandard beyond tolerance. It degrades the whole IMC system. It
> > is more embarrasing than anything else and this has been going on for
> > months.
> > 
> > Kirsten Anderberg
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:56:26 -0800 " anarch3m" <anarch3m at lycos.com>
> > writes:
> > > 
> > > I have sent several mails to the iimc sea general list and or 
> > > editorial, most recently a response to a tabling proposal for M 
> > > Parenti at Shoreline.  
> > > 
> > > I never recieved the comment on sea gen, or on editorial list.
> > > 
> > > Rick H sent important and timely business to general lolist but its 
> > > "held for admin" to act on?
> > > 
> > > Whats going on?
> > > 
> > > walt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
> > >
> > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.
> > asp?SRC=lycos10
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Imc-seattle-community mailing list
> > > Imc-seattle-community at lists.indymedia.org
> > > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-seattle-community
> > > 
> > 
> > *************************************************************************
> > *********************
> > ATTENTION! Kirsten Anderberg has discovered she has no administrative
> > control over her 
> > www.kirstenanderberg.com website. It has been hijacked, so to speak,
> > against her will 
> > by some guy on a power trip. So please change all links immediately to
> > www.angelfire.com/la3/kirstenanderberg.
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________________________________________
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> > 
> 
> 
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